See also: IRC log
<ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon August 21 2007
<ChrisW> scribenick: PaulVincent
Chris: minutes from last week - no objections - accepted
<Harold> Did we ever accept the F2F6 Minutes?
Chris: F2F6 minutes have been accepted
Jos: request for liaison for XML
Schema / XSL? Answer: no
... reason: would be useful for any future XML schema plans for "language tag" - for use in the RDF mapping for RIF
Sandro: suggest Jos send qu to the XML schema comment list (see any XML schema draft for list address)
Chris: not heard from anyone re social activities at F2F re dinner location / Fri night -- reminder -- let Chris know
<sandro> josb, see http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ -- it requests using Bugzilla but says you can use firstname.lastname@example.org
Chris: see wiki page http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F7 for more hotel info
Sandro: suggest wiki page for attendee hotel info / car use to facilitate sharing
<LeoraMorgenstern> I'll go.
<LeoraMorgenstern> Actually, perhaps Harold should go first, since there are some non-vanilla issues in mine.
Sandro: admin note: plan to migrate wiki s/w in future
Leora: looking at UC http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UC6_Worked_Example
... see Source Rules: tried to handle temporal aspect: uses Holds operator for state T
... Rule 1b: is equals an argument or an operator - as reification may be different
Paul: temporal aspects will be important - event processing for example might use event rules to determine high level temporal facts
Hassan: Dave & Michael would also have comments here. Temporals aspects also impact data model in RIF or not.
<Harold> If we want to avoid introducing a (temporal) modal logic, then reification seems unavoidable in Leora's UC6.
Hassan: temporal aspects / relating states are metalogic. Therefore assumptions made about the data model.
<Zakim> sandro, you wanted to ask if you're translating to BLD or to a SIt.Cal. dialect?
BLD = Basic Logic Dialact
Sandro: for example do we standardize "holds" in RIF syntax for translators
Hassan: problem is this will require agreements on "holds" definition...
Leora: risk is segregated RIF users
<josb> RIF is a rules language, not an action language, so defining "holds" is out of scope (at least for the BLD)
<Hassan> What about Leslie Lamport's TLA?
Sorry meant q+ :)
<Harold> The only problem in Rule 1b is the embedding of Equal: it could be 'encoded' as a Uniterm:
<Hassan> Temporal Logic of Actions
Sandro: should you be able to translate between different temporal handlng languages?
<Hassan> Good question Sandro !
Paul will take a look at comparing UC6 rules in an EP language like TIBCO's, for interest
Chris: action review: actions continued
Jos: issues raised were resolved
or discussed: not yet updated doc
... summary: doc covers RDF graph + RIF ruleset together, being faithful to RDF semantics
... 3 semantics: simple, RDF, RDFS (schema) - all 3 notions covered in doc
Sandro: concern re identifying semantics to use -- for future discussion
Axel: Strings with @ signs in RDF - will this be OK in the proposed format for such literals?
Jos: this is also a need to ask the XML schema group re such literal handling
<josb> x # y <- x[rdf:type -> y]
Chris: What is def of RDF- ? Jos: remove some axiomatic triples (triples true in every interpretation) - to avoid infinite no of facts
<AxelPolleres> the axiomnatic typing of listmembership properties is all that's removed, right?
Harold: Are any of these ideas eg "RDF-" also proposed to RDF community?
Jos: This is also already done in practice by practioners. But may be worthwhile to check with RDF people...
Sandro: use semantic-web mail list (semantic web community)
Jos: doc not sufficiently explained for feedback yet - needs more explanation eg delay until working draft release
<Harold> the combined
<Harold> models of RIF and RDF.
<Harold> were a little problem for Michael.
<AxelPolleres> SPARQL only lift the literals in subject position limitation.
<Harold> Jos, would something like your combined models of RIF and RDF also work for models of RIF and OWL (OWL-Lite, say)?
<AxelPolleres> We have defined a generalization of Riccardo's semantics, which doesn't make his restrictions... which obviously is no longer decidable.
Chris: plans for this doc in the BLD draft - as a section: Jos agree, Harlod agrees
Harold discussing section Specifying Signatures in RIF Dialects
Chris: other changes for review other than signatures, slotted syntax.
Jos: also changed: "symbol spaces" and datatypes.
<Harold> It would be good to fix asn to asn06 or asn07.
<Hassan> +1 with Sandro on using Prolog's syntax
<Harold> "Formal Syntax" could probably be renamed into something like "Formal Preliminaries".
Chris: 4 syntaxes in use: presentation + XML, ASN and "formal"
<Harold> Jos, we need a 1-to-1 correspondence between the presentation and XML syntaxes.
<Harold> (Then it doesnt matter which one is generated.)
Jos: no definintion of the semantics of the language, just some translation - presentation syntax is the "main" one for semantics?
<josb> a mapping from presentation to XML is sufficient
<luis_polo> excuse me, but i have to leave the teleco
<Harold> We could have mappings from the abstract to the XML to the presentation syntax.
<ChrisW> Scribe: Paul Vincent
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Chis/Chris/ Succeeded: s/Lesli/Leslie/ Succeeded: s/Uniterm: <Uniterm>/Uniterm:/ Found ScribeNick: PaulVincent Found Scribe: Paul Vincent Default Present: +1.512.342.aaaa, ChrisW, Harold, DougL, LeoraMorgenstern, josb, StellaMitchell, Sandro, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, AllenGinsberg, PaulVincent, luis_polo, Jeff_Pan, AxelPolleres, Gary_Hallmark Present: +1.512.342.aaaa ChrisW Harold DougL LeoraMorgenstern josb StellaMitchell Sandro Hassan_Ait-Kaci AllenGinsberg PaulVincent luis_polo Jeff_Pan AxelPolleres Gary_Hallmark Regrets: DaveReynolds MichaelKifer Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Aug/0041.html Got date from IRC log name: 21 Aug 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-rif-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]