<AllanJ> title: UAWG teleconference

<scribe> Scribe: JR

<scribe> ACTION: KF to Update Guideline 2 of the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-ua-minutes.html#action01]

Charles Chen author of FireVox participating on call. Discuss AJAX and UA

behavior

JA: Had an action item to set this up.
... Talked on the phone with CC last week...
... Please give intro.

CC: Created test cases for mozilla...

<clchen> http://accessibleajax.clcworld.net/

CC: This example has live regions...
... I've built live region support into FireVox
... Lots of questions about how to handle changing areas - what amount of context should be read.

JA: So concern last week was what to do when live region has focus and then it gets updated... several possibilities...
... WHat we are looking for is whether there should be a UA setting

CC: Yes the user could turn off javascript, so no more updates
... Independent control might be a problem
... Live regions may be interdependent so not ok just to have one region blocked
... All on/off seems ok
... Very interesting what to do when focus is on
... But DOM node removed and a new node is added so focus necessarily is bumped off
... But screen reader could be smat and take user back.
... re: Change during use
... Usually SR loads chunks of text at a time so unlikely to break mid-sentence

JA: Another scenario, link in llive region, want to follow link but its not there anymore

CC: Well yeah but its gone so nothing to click on, maybe there could be a history feature
... Another question is how this should be done...should be a browser thing not an AT thing
... Browsers already cache back/forward pages
... But that's a looking ahead thing.

JA: So politeness levels....maybe there should be a don't update till I tell you

CC: Not such a good idea
... Really should be up to author
... Maybe I could put tabindex=-1 on every control and then look for user and don't change nodes with focus.

JA: So how exactly does update happen?
... In old day metarefresh could be blocked by AT

CC: Live region don't even need to do http request.
... Just using javascript - could be completely cklientside - eg. using author input
... The key is DOM node manipulation

JA: So content could come from anywhere.

CC: Right

<clchen> http://accessibleajax.clcworld.net/scoreboard/scoreboard.htm

CC: This is a sportscore example, but it's all randomly generated

JA: So when something flashes...

CC: In that example, everything is "polite"
... Firevox remebers which areas change, not what the change was - when user wants, it goes back and reads the current content
... There is another thing called "relevant"...but PF's use case is fairly weak

Correction: "Relevant" Will be in there...

but relevant="interim" prob won't be there

JA: Could you conceive of a UA negotiating politeness

CC: Definately, yin Firevox you can set Strict-WAI-ARIA and you can also set OFF which igniores author-set politeness
... Ony difficulty is how to present it to the user
... Very difficult on a per live region basis - tricky UI
... But algorithmically fairly simple

JA: UA has wrestled with the granularity of configurability as well
... Could be done by cookies

CC: Yes, but AT could remember it as well

JA: ANother question...without AT, what makes flashing

CC: Just made it a good example to draw the eye

<clchen> http://accessibleajax.clcworld.net/simple/live_off.htm

CC: It is an authoring decision

JA: Another confiurability question...

So if I need help focussing, maybe I could ask the UA to flash.

JA: But others may want to turn flashing off

CC: Yes browsers could do that - DOM Inspector tool does something similar
... But maybe turn javascript off to prevent flashing
... But how granular?
... e.g. could write protect stle attributes

KF: Concerned that average user won't want lots of configuration

JA: RIght - that's why some sites have ability to zoom site, since many people don't know UA can do that

CC: Could also cue up changes for some num. of secs, etc
... But throttling is tricky...author can do it easily...
... But if user agent needs to do it...may not know where to cut it off.
... Describes example of UA that turns off Javascript for 10 secs etc

KF: A while back I made some of these points some time back
... Think author should be encouraged to understand this and facilitate this control

JA: Could give live regions a title?
... Could go with toggling politeness

CC: Can give a good example.

<clchen> http://reefchat.overscore.com/

Reefchat is fully Firevox compatible

CC: One of first implementations of channel
... Demonstrates "prioritixe messages"...
... Makes text bold PLUS sets live region properties
... But UA can't really identify these situations
... Since it just tells the javascript to do something

JA: Wow we have lots of issues.
... Politeness, Timing...

CC: Screen reader can handle politeness negotiation
... Author proposes, Use disposes.

JR: Brings up issue of rude areas moving focus

CC: Rude regions can do it
... But doesn't really make sense
... Anything can grab user's cursor, not just live regions

JA: SO it's a wcag thing to say don't move focus around
... It's a uaag thing to deal with it if author does anyway
... Charles can we keep you on a "retainer"?

CC: Yes

2. review action items

JA to Will forward PP's message to x-tech.

<scribe> DONE

JA to Contact Charles Chen to invite him to the call.

<scribe> DONE

JR to Will update wiki for 3.1

<scribe> DONE

JR (3.4) rework new proposal, flesh out setting and UA behavior

<scribe> DONE

PP to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3

NOT YET

<scribe> ACTION: PP to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-ua-minutes.html#action03]

JA: Idea is that UA can choose whetehr or not to launch plugins

@alt and @title display as tooltip

JA: Tooltips are not configurable in browsers generally

JR: Resolution that alt and image should never be seen together works for me

JA: Though sometimes helpful in image maps

JR: THen title should used

KF: I haven't seen is that Web accessibility is helped by alt being seen as the tooltip

JA: Display of alt to everyone in IE has helped its use
... But there is a lack of configurability in browser
... So maybe UA should have control of size and display of tooltips, warnings, etc

JR: If 200% size slected it should apply to all.

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Write proposal for controlling display of tooltips [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<AllanJ> JR: in a UA when you zoom the font size, it should trickle to the tooltip, but doesn't

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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0040.html
Got date from IRC log name: 2 Aug 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: ja kf pp

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