See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: JR
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Expand on idea of blocking functional areas: animation, [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action01]
low contrast, etc.
<AllanJ> JR: reviews currents structure - toggle individual components
<AllanJ> ...new sections
<AllanJ> ...1. toggle non-text -
<AllanJ> ...2. toggle audio
<AllanJ> ...3. toggle programatic content
<AllanJ> ...4. toggle secondary UA
<AllanJ> CL: combining or categorizing
<AllanJ> JR: combining - images (animations, foreground, background)
<AllanJ> JR: still issue with controlling thinks the UA doesn't know about...non-native items (flash, other audio, etc.)
<AllanJ> CL: what about flash
<AllanJ> JR: covered by 3. programmatic content - should be up to user to decide what to enable
<AllanJ> CL: applets and plugins are different
<AllanJ> JR: 4. launching secondary UA includes flash and all other UA plugins whether they open in a new window or embedded in base UA
<AllanJ> JR: 1, 2, 3 are rendered natively by the UA.
<AllanJ> CL: even within Flash player, it becomes the UA, is should have the 1, 2, 3, toggle ability
<AllanJ> JR: flash is content type and a UA
<AllanJ> JR: nothing prevents a UA to render new technologies natively (svg)
<AllanJ> JR: need Peter to review.
<AllanJ> KF: concern- feels like an onion with all the layers
<AllanJ> JR: they are already there, just a reorganization.
JA: Brings up other issues, met Al Gilman at TEITAC...
PF has task to update "until user agents..." document...
CL: In PF or UA space?
JA: MAy be in both places.
Correction: not PF, it's in EO - general resources
JA: Rereading...lots fall in what
we were just talking about
... eg. can't control what browser doesn't know about
... would say 2/3s of things in the doc are still valid because UAs still don't see that stuff
... Greg R. is now in PF and looking in on HTML working group has the task - sent JA the update
... But would be good to update it
JA: This is on Greg R's site.
JA: This is link from UA's site to EO space.
CL: The doc refers to an old
version of UAAG
... i.e. not the W3C Rec
JA: Will be affected also by WCAG 2.0
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Write to PF re: the update of the "intil user agents..." doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<AllanJ> JR: Update to 3.1 toggle background image
<AllanJ> JR: Allow configuration not to render IMAGES THAT ARE RENDERED BENEATH ALL
<AllanJ> OF THE OTHER CONTENT RENDERED IN A VIEWPORT.
<AllanJ> CL: problem, background image may be on part of page that is not being viewed.
<AllanJ> JR: chose not to say 'body' because it is html specific
<AllanJ> CL: what are you trying to limit.
CL: Viewport is not the right term
<AllanJ> CL: the UA would need to determine the "body" background image for other non-html technology, or strange coding methods.
CL: Peter's concern is semantically how to determine what is function of background image
KF: Right may not have semantic background across all
<AllanJ> CL: need to programattically determine what is the background-image.
CL: Maybe ... there are canvas widgets
JA: Is it semantic?
CL: Think of it as a whiteboard
JR: Should we go with "canvas"?
JA: Talking specifically about
background image on body tag not divs etc
... Still doesn't get at main issue of many other ways to do the same thing
... Larger issue - how do we decide what to write guidelines about.
<AllanJ> JR: many (most?) pages that use background image do it the one way that the UA can control
<AllanJ> JR: 3.1 is too broad, need to change wording to focus on background of entire presenation (canvas)
CL: UA's can do this today?
... In DoJo they detect high contrast etc. and display text alternative
... Inaccessible widgets sets all bets are off
JA: So do we go with
specific-case of background image?
... Reword so we know we are talking about the base background image
... Define "background image"
... of the canvas
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Fix up proposal on 3.1 and specifically exclude backgrounds other than for the canvas/base [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action03]
JA: Didn't write anything, just
discussed with Al GIlman.
... Al said send to PF he says its a UA control issue
... But I thought it was a negotiation think
KF: We have a setting for this already right?
JA: We do, but not just talking about one refresh
KF: Depends on how user is reading a page
JA: e.g. reading cursor vs. focus
KF: Jaws says they can handle all this refreshing already
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Do some more thinking about live region updating and focus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action04]
KF: Screens when sports going
... Pitch, stats, bases, etc.
... If focus on it it goes out of date
JA: THere is the politness of stuff
JR: Maybe politeness can be used to push through a region with focus.
JA: What about someone with cognitive impairment etc, who don't want changes in focussed regions
KF: Interesting area...slowing down world...what happens when you catch up again.
JA: Usually no buffering
KF: Danger in that too
<scribe> ACTION: PP to Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Get thoughts together about 3.4 "All executable content" managing configuration [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Proposal to have configuration not to have stripped down user agent windows [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: PP to Proposal on ways User Agents could use live regions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html#action08]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: JR Inferring ScribeNick: JR Default Present: Allanj, KFord, JR, cklaws Present: Allanj KFord JR cklaws WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 19 Jul 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-ua-minutes.html People with action items: ja jr pp WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]