W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

22 Jun 2007

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Doyle, Jack, Judy, Wayne, Shadi, Andrew, Justin, William, Sharron, Henny, Alan, Sylvie
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Alan

Contents


 

 

<Alan> scribe Alan

<Alan> scribe: Alan

Continuing EOWG review of WCAG 2.0 Working Draft from 17 May 2007

AC: Surprised by description of assistive technology as user agent.

WD: Based on what is in the WCAG draft.

JB: Is generally accepted definition in WCAG.

<Sylvie> maybe I am P8, I could notsee my name on the list

DS: Unfamiliar with term API, and teh phrase about robustness of an API.

JB: SD sent comments saying that Note 1 was very technical and difficult to understand.

WL: First sentence hard to understand.

WD: Could drop the last sentence of first paragraph.

<judy> ACTION: wayne's redef: drop last sentence of first paragraph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action01]

WL: Confusion because User Agent is usually used to mean browser. "user agents denote user agents in the familiar sense of the term"
... Might be better to just say "browser"

SD: Mostly had problems with first part.

WL: Have compared with previous definition. Has removed phrase about disabilities that go beyond mainstream user agents.

<judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#assistivetechnologydef

JB: Maybe go back to last week's version.
... Update it.

<judy> ACTION: wayne's redef: still need to revise "In this definition, mainstream user agents denote user agents in the familiar sense of the term" -- does not work. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action02]

WD: In main part of definition. New sentence "Assistive technologies for Web content can also stand alone and interact directly with operating system services."

JB: What does standalone mean?

WD: Like a voice browser.

JB: Meaning too wide

<judy> ACTION: wayne's redef: remove "stand alone and" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action03]

<judy> ACTION: wayne's redef: remove the entire sentence starting with "In either case,..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action04]

JB: Several people have problems with the notes.
... Recommend dropping Note 1?

[No disagreement]

<judy> ACTION: gloss-assistivetech: drop note 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action05]

WD: Parsing theory not necessary.

JW: Agree to drop it.

AA: If drop Note 1, can also drop Note 2, as it is addition to former.
... How about putting it after examples, relating it to them.

JB: It's like saying that there are features that are separated from mainstream user agent and called AT.

SR: These functions can also be performed by maintstream user agents, but are provided separately in AT.

<judy> something like "note that these same supportive functions can also be provided by the mainstream user agent, but when they are performed by a separate tool, we call them assistive technologies"

<judy> "some of them are provided..."

<judy> ACTION: wayne's redef: remove note 3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action06]

JB: Comments from Justin

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0067.html

<shadi> yes

<judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#contents

<shadi> ok

JT: There's no meaningful difference between the two, blinking and flashing.

<judy> draft ACTION: the difference between 2.2.2 (blinking) and 2.3.1 (flashing) are not clear even with the links to definitions, as the definitions are mutually self-referencing and seem just like different degrees of the same thing. either differentiate more in the SC themselves, or combine them.

<Wayne> scribenick: wayne

Group: Accepts Judy's clarification as an action.

<judy> ACTION: [guideline 2] the difference between 2.2.2 (blinking) and 2.3.1 (flashing) is not clear even with the links to definitions, as the definitions are mutually self-referencing and seem just like different degrees of the same thing. either differentiate more in the SC themselves, or combine them. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action07]

<judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0081.html

Justin: We only talked about the changes to 1.3, but did not get to the 1.2

<judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-20070517/Overview.html#media-equiv-captions

Judy: Change "multi-media alternative to text" to "visual or audio" equivalent to text.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.2.1] Replace "multimedia alternative to text" with "audio or video alternative to text"

<judy> ACTION: [SC 1.2.1] Replace "multimedia alternative to text" with "audio and/or video alternative to text" since it is possible to gloss text w/ audio only, or w/ silent video only (for instance, sign language) or w/ audio & video together (e.g. video of talking head). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action08]

Group: Agrees

<Andrew> what about 'second life'?

Judy: We need to focus on clarity rather than content, this concern should be passed directly to WCAGWG directly.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? We have no idea, nor do the linked definitions help.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. Do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" If so, that would be more understandable.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. Do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" Or is it the semantics about the relation between objects? If so, that would be more understandable.

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. Do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" Or is it the semantics about the relation between objects? Either one of these, or both, would be more understandable.

<judy> ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. Do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" Or is it the semantics about the relation between objects? Either one of these, or both, would be more understandable. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action09]

Group: Agrees

<judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0085.html

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 2.4.2] Do you mean the title tag or the title that goes in the H1? Please clarify (even if in some non-HTML specific way).

Justin: What does page title mean? title-element, page-element

Group: yes

<judy> ACTION: [SC 2.4.2] Do you mean the title tag or the title that goes in the H1? Please clarify (even if in some non-HTML specific way). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action10]

<judy> draft ACTION: [SC 3.1.4] We debated this but could not agree on a common interpretation. What do you mean?

<judy> ACTION: [SC 3.1.4] We debated this but could not agree on a common interpretation. What do you mean? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action11]

<judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0073.html

<judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0070.html

Shadi: (through email) "The phrasing of success criterion 1.1.1 is very dense and may have a lot of implicit assumptions.."

<judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#intro

Judy: Intorduction

<judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0081.html

Justin: Email on June 6 (0081) on Introduction
... What are we (WAI) doing in this area of research?

Judy: There were complaints that WCAG claimed a more comprehensive coverage of disabilities that they actually did.
... There was a series of meetings that revealed the need for research, but the means was not identified.

Jack: What does the need for research mean for these Guidelines.

<judy> draft ACTION: [introduction, last paragraph] The last sentence on "R&D is needed" leaves the reader hanging -- can anything more specific be said?

<judy> draft ACTION: [introduction, last paragraph] The last sentence on "R&D is needed" leaves the reader hanging -- can anything more specific be said, or would it be helpful to the reader to re-explain the testability tie-in here?

<Andrew> Apologies: Liam, Helle, Shawn, ???

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: [guideline 2] the difference between 2.2.2 (blinking) and 2.3.1 (flashing) is not clear even with the links to definitions, as the definitions are mutually self-referencing and seem just like different degrees of the same thing. either differentiate more in the SC themselves, or combine them. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: [SC 1.2.1] Replace "multimedia alternative to text" with "audio and/or video alternative to text" since it is possible to gloss text w/ audio only, or w/ silent video only (for instance, sign language) or w/ audio & video together (e.g. video of talking head). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: [SC 1.3.1] What does this mean? Most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. Do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" Or is it the semantics about the relation between objects? Either one of these, or both, would be more understandable. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: [SC 2.4.2] Do you mean the title tag or the title that goes in the H1? Please clarify (even if in some non-HTML specific way). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: [SC 3.1.4] We debated this but could not agree on a common interpretation. What do you mean? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: gloss-assistivetech: drop note 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: wayne's redef: drop last sentence of first paragraph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: wayne's redef: remove "stand alone and" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: wayne's redef: remove note 3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: wayne's redef: remove the entire sentence starting with "In either case,..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: wayne's redef: still need to revise "In this definition, mainstream user agents denote user agents in the familiar sense of the term" -- does not work. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/06/22 20:29:58 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/mutually referencing/mutually self-referencing/
Succeeded: s/There was a meeting/There was a series of meetings/
Found Scribe: Alan
Inferring ScribeNick: Alan
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching previous ScribeNick pattern: <wayne> ...
Found ScribeNick: wayne
ScribeNicks: wayne, Alan
Default Present: doyle, Jack, Judy, Wayne_Dick, Shadi, Andrew, Justin, William, Sharron, Henny, Alan, Sylvie
Present: Doyle Jack Judy Wayne Shadi Andrew Justin William Sharron Henny Alan Sylvie

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 22 Jun 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html

WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [sc 1.3.1] what does this mean? most of us had no idea, and the few who did had difficulty explaining what the practical implications of this would be for content development. do you mean "semantics conveyed through presentation?" or is it the semantics about the relation between objects? either one of these, or both, would be more understandable. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action09]


WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [guideline 2] the difference between 2.2.2 (blinking) and 2.3.1 (flashing) is not clear even with the links to definitions, as the definitions are mutually self-referencing and seem just like different degrees of the same thing. either differentiate more in the sc themselves, or combine them. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action07]


WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [sc 3.1.4] we debated this but could not agree on a common interpretation. what do you mean? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action11]


WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [sc 2.4.2] do you mean the title tag or the title that goes in the h1? please clarify (even if in some non-html specific way). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action10]


WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [sc 1.2.1] replace "multimedia alternative to text" with "audio and/or video alternative to text" since it is possible to gloss text w/ audio only, or w/ silent video only (for instance, sign language) or w/ audio & video together (e.g. video of talking head). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/22-eo-minutes.html#action08]

People with action items: gloss-assistivetech need redef s still wayne

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]