> EOWG home > EOWG Minutes
Judy: thanks to Wayne and Justin for their comments to the list
Judy: see - http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance
Shadi: ERT is also looking at
... easier to read compared with last release
Wayne: found it easy it read the
'fourth' time through
... difficulties include the complexity of language, eg "accessibility supported"
... also, accessibility supported would be hard to test without a list, generally an unclear concept, and most of the rest depends on this
Doyle: found it medium difficulty; the accessibility supported definition was somewhat nebulous
Sylvie: had to read it many times to understand
Justin: got it, but "accessibility supported web technology" was difficult
Andrew: had to read a couple of times to understand
Alan: had to read it with definitions to make sense
Judy: recalls asking for an
... wants some orienting material at the start of the section
... maybe start with the sentence "This conformance section describes ..." to orient what will follow
... but the material is not in the order of that opening sentence
Doyle: agree - the material floats around in odd order
Wayne: the material itself was more problematic than the order
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: take the sentence about what this section covers and put it at the very beginning of the section; then give the short version of what conformance means; then say it's normative; then make sure that the promised sequence matches the actual sequence. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action01]
Judy: lets look at the
Accessibility Support of Web Technologies subsection
... is a simple definition missing from the opening of this section?
Justin: thinks the opening sentence tries to do this
Judy: can't we simplify it?
Sylvie: yes, simplify it!
Judy: start with the concept, and then tell us how it is used
Sylvie: agrees that it needs simplifying
Wayne: maybe we can have a simple description, as the definition probably needs to be complex
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: please be sure to present the reader with a short description of what accessibility supported technologies are, before telling us when/where they need to be used, and that the author must use them. right now the definition is doubly embedded in two other concepts in the intro paragraph. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action03]
Alan: maybe stating that some technologies support assistive technologies, and these are the ones you should use
<Alan> For example: Some technologies are supported by users' assistive technologies as well as the accessibility features in browsers and other user agents, authors should choose such Web technologies (HTML, scripting, etc.) to create content that will meet the WCAG 2.0 success criteria
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: explain clearly & simply, as part of the introductory paragraph, that some technologies support assistive technologies, and these are the ones that you should use. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action04]
Alan: For example: Some technologies are supported by users' assistive technologies as well as the accessibility features in browsers and other user agents, authors should choose such Web technologies (HTML, scripting, etc.) to create content that will meet the WCAG 2.0 success criteria
Andrew: they might have introduced the term in the Intro section at the start of the document, but as EO has commented before, many people skip over Intro section
Alan: they use "technologies" three times in the opening sentence - Text is repetitive: In choosing Web technologies ..., authors must use technologies that are supported by users' assistive technologies... Such technologies...
Andrew: and they are referring to two different types of technologies - does not aid comprehension
Wayne: they need to separate the two technologies and their use/purpose
Andrew: add qualifiers to each use, eg Web or Assistive
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: in first paragraph of "accessibility support of web technologies" please add "web" in front of the two uses of "technologies" that do not currently have any other descriptor. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action05]
Judy: does "web technologies" need to be linked to an explanation in the glossary?
Justin: does each use of "technologies" need the descriptor?
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: the reason for the previous request is to clearly separate reference to the authors' (Web) technologies from reference to the users (assistive) technologies; and we suggest that this differentiation be checked throughout the document. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action06]
Andrew: next section apparently links to lists of support (web) technologies - but goes to a section in Understanding, about what these list might be
Wayne: refers to his email on
and suggested that the "rubber needs to meet the road"
... suggested - An information technology is accessibility supported whenever the POUR criteria are supported by the technology itself or the communication interface of the technology can be programmatically determined by assistive technologies that support POUR.
Wayne: need the friendly description PLUS the formal definition
Judy: can Wayne (and any helpers) come up with both for "accessibility supported"
Sylvie: could try and help
Wayne: suggests - In choosing Web technologies (HTML, scripting, proprietary applications, etc.) that will be used when creating content that will meet the WCAG 2.0 success criteria, authors must use web technologies that are supported by the accessibility features in user agents as well as the users' assistive technology.
<judy> ACTION: EOWG revisit choosing web technologies, and explanation of accessibility supported technologies [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action07]
Judy: looking at the 'rules'
... should we leave these until we see what Wayne et al come up with?
Justin: do we expect the average developer to look at these rules and understand whether a technology is accessibility-supported technology
<judy> ACTION: [essential components] re-check at some point in future to see if the concept of accessibility supported technologies should be added anywhere. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action08]
<judy> ACTION: conformance section: EOWG feels that the goal for the section on accessibility supported technologies should be that the average developer should be able to read the section and understand the concept; understand the importance of the concept; and understand that you should be able to go to a list of accessibility supported technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action09]
Judy: looking at 'conformance requirements' subsection
Liam: some parts are hard to parse
Andrew: seems like we have two (or more) lists
Liam: understandability issue is particularly related to Point 4. Alternate Versions.
Liam: 7, 8, 9 are info abut conformance claims - probably belong in the next subsection
Judy: 1, 2, 3 are the conformance claims
Wayne: we should take out 4 - its an out
Liam: Why isn't 6 a level A S.C.?
Andrew: and what is the difference between 4 & 5?
Judy: the meeting agrees to extend the time by 5 minutes
Liam: Why isn't 6 a level A S.C.? they already refer to SC 2.3.1
Judy: thanks Liam, we will revisit this
Andrew: isn't "Any information or functionality that is implemented in technologies that are not accessibility supported must also be available via technologies that are accessibility supported." from 5, much the same as 4? Seems redundant
<judy> ACTION: EOWG revisit possible redundancies or "shouldn't-this-be-in-the-guidelines-section-ness" of items 5 and 6 in the conformance requirements section. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/08-eo-minutes.html#action10]