See also: IRC log
<yamx> This is Yam.
<scribe> Scribe: Steven
Steven: Partial regrets from Alex
... he's only on irc
Mark: I propose Steven as chair
Yam: Second
<scribe> New members: Susan and John from Progeny
(sent regrets for today)
FtF in NYC in June
Steven: My feeling is that not enough people
could come in June
... so the nex nextt FtF will be in September
... In Madrid if I remember right
... 10 and 11 September
Mark: Yes, Madrid
Steven: So do we want to have an editor's
meeting on the Monday and or Tuesday?
... (let's do it offline)
Reports back from conferences
<Alex-DERI> As I already said via mail, I got the OK from DERI, so I could attend the FTF meeting in june
Steven: Mark and I were at the two main ewb
conferences the last two weeks
... There was a panel on the future of HTML at XTech
... quite a lot of panelists
... only 45 minutes, so not as lot of time
... BBC interviewed me and Mike Smith (BBC) afterwards
... Another interesting presentation was Joost
... who showed a lovely system using compound documents, XHTML , CSS<
SVG
... really nice, and using our idea of how it should be
Mark: The mobile Ajax session was good too,
talking about XForms, XHTML2 and so on
... I argued that you can do Ajax declaratively, and the session ended up
talking about that as the main point
... Volantis backed me up on this
... they deliver XHTML2 and XForms to mobile devices by transformations
Rich: Do we have any data on how much declarative saves?
Steven: Yes, that is the core of my talks at
the moment
... you can show that costs can be reduced to 3% by doing it declaratively
... and we have a couple of real-life examples to back that up
Shane: I wonder if Tina can summarise the thread on www-html
Steven: She sent regrets
Shane: there were two main threads: 1) Why is
HTML5 codifying broken behaviour
... why not separate implementation guidelines from spec
... 2) changing the semantics between HTML4 and 5
Steven: It is not clear to me the best way to
reach that group of people
... whether it is worth talking on those discussions or not
<Alex-DERI> As a side note, I'm on HTML5 too
Mark: We need to clarify what the difference is between what we are doing and what they are doing
Alex, so is Mark
<Alex-DERI> I know
Mark: You can use XHTML2/XForms to show how much work you save compared with using libraries
Shane: I fixed the xmlns problem, and passed
the changes on, and it will be in the next version
... so you can use xmlns:xxx in markup and not get validation errors
... but you still need a schema
Steven: There was another mail from someone from Japan, mentioning a fix
Shane: That was about C1 characters
... the validator is now fixed, but we need to update our specs
... because we ship xml declarations
... and they now need to be fixed
Steven: In TR space?
Shane: Yes
... but they don't show up in the spec
... I will approach Ian about it
Steven: When will the xmlns fix be shipped?
Shane: It is in beta now
Steven: An excellent demo at XTech of an RDFa
extension for Mozilla
... seems to point to maturity of RDFa
... we can move forward on this quite fast
Mark: Lots of talks mentioned RDFa at WWW2007
Shane: I have just raised the problem with Ian
Jacobs
... he says we can't fix it in place
... we have to reissue the specs
Steven: Why?
Shane: Just because
Steven: So it would be a PER
Shane: Yes
Steven: Painless enough
Shane: I had an action item to ask how XML
parsing works when QNames get turned into tuples
... the answer was "they don't"
... inside attributes
... and what we are trying to do is allow scoped attribute values in some
taxonomy
... so an application has to do the interpretation itself
... So then I said to myself, if the parser isn't helping us, why are we
using xmlns to establish the relationship?
... and the conclusion I reached with Mark, is that xmlns is something
everyone understands, so we should use it
... but I wonder if we shouldn't use CURIEs, since they don't carry the
baggage with them
Mark: Do you mean to change the sysntax of CURIEs?
Shane: No
Mark: It should always have said CURIEs, but because of the pushback we were getting, we said let's use QNames for now
Steven: Are you suggesting we use something other than xmlns for the prefixes?
Mark: We can unbind the connection
... use xmlns, or triples using <link> for instance
... Jeremy Carroll was enthusiastic to use it for SPARQL
... and we can persuade IPTC to use it too
... and it would allow us to have default prefixes
... if profile = X, the dc maps to this, foaf maps to that, etc.
... and then making XHTML documents much easier to write, cut/paste and so
on
Steven: Will the same notation (like namespaces) confuse people
Mark: Good question; one option is to change
the syntax of CURIEs
... so they look different
... we could even let people define the separator
... but one scenario is that within the flexibility, we use xmlns as an
option
[ADJOURN]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/nex/next/ Succeeded: s/cary/cary/ Succeeded: s/cary/carry/ Succeeded: s/DO/Do/ Succeeded: s/namespaces/prefixes/ Found Scribe: Steven Inferring ScribeNick: Steven Default Present: Steven, Rich, yamx, markbirbeck, ShaneM Present: Steven Rich yamx markbirbeck ShaneM Regrets: Alessio Tina Susan Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007May/0015 Got date from IRC log name: 23 May 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/05/23-xhtml-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]