<shawn> scribe: Wayne

Opening comments by Judy: The Draft WCAG 20 is out; a lot of work went into getting that out.

We now have 3 weeks to reply to the WCAG comments.

There is a six week comment period on the new draft.

This is a public working draft, not a last call.

WCAG 2.0 Quick Reference

Comment Planning

Judy: Has anyone had time to review the comments. Those may be better covered next week.

WCAG 2.0 Quick Reference

Judy: We have been talking about this. Lets just go through and review the changes.

Shawn: Talked about the title. We did not come to anything yet. This is open to change, [later]

Judy: The quick reference is already circulating.

Genreal Reactions:

Andrew: General organization is better; the links are harder to skim. Funny formating for Explorer.

Henny: Had trouble accessing in Firefox

Andrew: The numbers are not helpful and hard to follow. Place them at the end of the link.

Judy: Look at WCAG 20 Guidelines. The sufficient links in techniques have codes. The links in the techniques are given at the lead of statements. Andrew cannot skim.

Jack: are the codes like g94 ... part of the title. It is the reference to the guideline.

Judy: These codes seem to be distracting. Should they be gone or listed at the end.

William and Liam: They add nothing.

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: the code (e.g., G143:) at the beginning of the techniques hinders skimming and complicates processing. consider eliminting them, or putting them at the end in the parenthesis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action01]

Henny: (Common Failures) Beginning of these have the same lead-in. Makes it difficult to scan visually.

Judy: The repeated idea could be bracketted.

Andrew: It should be dropped.

Judy: Strip redundant and consider something more direce like "You will fail if..."
... Eliminate redundancy throughout.

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Try to eliminate the repetitive things, such as "Failure of SC x.x.x due to" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action02]

Question: Is "direct and simple wording" jargon?

<Harvey> Should XML be included as one of the permitted technologies?

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Make headings more simple and direct, e.g., change "Common Failures Identified by the Working Group for x.x.x" to something more like: "Your page will fail if" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action03]

Andrew: In the advisor techniques 1.3.1 ARIA could be linked.

William: SCRIPT looks like an achronym if ARIA is?

Andrew: Words that are not achronyms should not be in caps?...

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: under Advisory Techniques for 1.3.1, having "(SCRIPT)" in all caps makes it seem like an acronym [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action04]

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: under Advisory Techniques for 1.3.1, consider expanding &/or linking acronym [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action05]

Justin: going to h6 in 1.3.1 is too compex.

Shawn: In general there are problems with visual design.
... Guideline 1.2; What stands out? (in terms of levels of information)

William: All the underlining is overdone.

Shawn: Levels and boxes?

Liam: Why are we italicizing.. We are changing too many things per step down.

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Having box around Advisory Tech brings it forward, instead of back. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action06]

<Andrew> scribe: Andrew

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Need to simplify the visual design -- especially cutting down the italics, e.g., not glossary terms. Look at heading levels, esp. left margins. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action07]

discussion: language simplification is desirable, subject to the technology of pulling links text from a database of materials

Judy: expansion/contraction - should be independently expandable (not working today)

William: Abbreviations (and their expansions) not presented consistently

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Consider trying to link less text, e.g., "G81: Providing a synchronized video of the sign language interpreter that can be displayed in a different viewport or overlaid on the image by the player" and if can simplify, e.g., "SM13: Providing sign language interpretation through synchronized video streams in SMIL 1.0" [@@needs further edit before submitting] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action08]

Judy: W3C does have rules for abbreviations - needs some copy editing

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Need space before <h2>WCAG 2.0 Guidelines (at least in OPera) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action09]

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Getting layout bugs in IE & Firefox [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action10]

<judy> actions?

Wayne: acronyms - ARIA & SCRIPT - not both acronyms, but look even though not ARIA is not treated as such

Judy: lets look at Introduction section - has been shortened since last draft

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Introduction needs spellchecking and "conformance levels speified above." change to 'below' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action11]

Henny: Most users will have some familiartity with WCAG2 - do we really need Para's 2 & 3? Maybe they could be footnotes - or even removed.

Andrew: concur in general

Sharon: part of Para 2 is useful, eg 'submit new techniques' & 'can use other techniques'

Shawn: can reduce the text and just provide pointers?

Sharon: yes, but needs careful wording as some will come straight here

Andrew: if we want people to read the intro, then needs to be more succinct, otherwise it will be bypassed

Judy: present more as key information, possibly with a few bullets to hightlight and assist skimming

Justin: hard to read - tend to just skip

Judy: Intro needs rewriting - needs to be engaging

Jack: good, but waht are the important points?

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Introduction, people are skipping it. make it engaging, easier to read, less academic, cut it down, leave only the most important points, succinctly. point to info elsewhere. [details in next action item] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action12]

<judy> Jack: 'use these, but you can use other ones if you want."

<judy> (from jack)

Jack: use these, but you can use other ones if you want

Shawn: what about para three?

Judy: need something about "advisory techniques that go beyond WCAG 2.0's requirements"

Sharon: last sentence can go

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Introduction: EOWG suggests deleting the 3rd paragraph (that starts with "In addition to the 'sufficient techniques', ") [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action13]

Judy: middle sentence could be a negotiated disclaimer WRT congitive disabilities
... what about Para 1?

Sharon: can we propose a redraft?

Judy: yes, or make suggestions

Sharon: I'll take a pass at rewriting - will send to the list

William: "... list of technology types includes the technologies that ..." is jargon

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Introduction, 2nd paragraph, do think want to keep the idea that you can use your own techniques & submit new ones -- but do it succincntly & point to more infor [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action14]

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: Introduction: "The list of technology types includes the technologies that are currently available. Others will be added over time." huh [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action15]

Judy: Customising section - any comments

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: consider changing "(Cookies must be supported and enabled in your browser to save your settings.)" to "Requires cookies" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action16]

William: can we change "Cookies must be supported and enabled in your browser to save your settings" to "Requires cookies"

Justin: for the wishlist - can we have a permanent link to send he customised version to co-workers

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: wishlist for later: ability to send URI with my customizations to colleagues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action17]

Henny: the text above the 'button' explaining the button seems redundant

Shawn: Liam suggested previously that it would be good to show/hide lots of stuff - this is planned

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: @@ ability to collapse (not hide) customization [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action18]

Shawn: also planned to allow show/hide 'advisory techniques'
... what about 'sufficient techniques'?

Liam the more collapsable the more usabale on a daily basis - especially with increased frequency of use, so eventually just have Guidelines

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: checkboxes for sufficient techniques, advisory, & failures [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action19]

Andrew: is the word "Show" required for levels?

Judy: please play around over the next week and provide more feedback

<shawn> ACTION: Quick Ref comment: in customization, can take the word 'show' out of "Show Level A Success Criteria" & other 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action20]

<judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance

WCAG 2.0 Conformance messaging

reference: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance

Judy: note that the green box area (Editorial Note) is still being worked on
... WG is seeking feedback on this
... expect this topic on the next agenda

Shawn: do we want the 'elevator pitch' for the conformance model?

Wayne: yes please!!

Judy: remember there are many different sections - the intent of this Working Draft is to stabilise the content and move to a second Last Call
... they can use all the 'scrubbing' they can get
... feel free to make iindividual comments
... lets consider how EOWG looks at it and comments

Andrew: if people have areas that are difficult to comprehend, that might help prioritise our approach

Wayne: have they considered a DAISY version? Would make navigation very easy

<judy> ACTION: [all w3c docs] suggest publishing all w3c docs in daisy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action21]

Judy: can people send those areas of difficulty to the list
... is the past different people have foccused on different sections - might be helpful again here
... we might do a survey to close out our comments - possibly to collect feedback too

<Wayne> I will focus on glossary and conformance.

Judy: we need to start on an initial discusion on our responses next week

Shawn: Can we do an attendance check for the next few weeks?

<Wayne> Andrew, I will clean up the minutes

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
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Found Scribe: Wayne
Inferring ScribeNick: Wayne
Found Scribe: Andrew
Inferring ScribeNick: Andrew
Scribes: Wayne, Andrew
ScribeNicks: Wayne, Andrew
Default Present: Sharron, Judy, Jack, doyle, Shawn, +0207391aaaa, Henny, +1.562.256.aabb, Wayne, William, Alan, Bingham, Andrew_Arch, Liam_McGee, Justin
Present: Sharron Judy Jack doyle Shawn +0207391aaaa Henny +1.562.256.aabb Wayne William Alan Bingham Andrew_Arch Liam_McGee Justin
Regrets: [scribe please get from mailing list]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0042.html
Got date from IRC log name: 18 May 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html

WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: [all w3c docs] suggest publishing all w3c docs in daisy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/18-eo-minutes.html#action21]

People with action items: 2nd ability above. change comment conformance consider do for introduction later levels need needs paragraph quick ref speified spellchecking think try trying want wishlist

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