W3C

- DRAFT -

Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

2 May 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Previous

Attendees

Present
Steven, ShaneM, alessio, yamx, +04670855aaaa, Windrose, Mark_Birbeck, _alessio
Regrets
Rich, Susan
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Steven

Contents


 

 

<Windrose> Good (quick check here) morning, Steven.

nope

afternoon for me

:-)

Ciao Alessio!

<alessio> ciao steven :)

<alessio> & ciao all

<Windrose> Ciao Alessio

Hi Lachy

We'll soon find out :-)

<Lachy> ok, I'll just watch

What would you have done other wise?

otherwise

<Lachy> I could always just ignore it

:-)

<markbirbeck> Lachy...but the problem is whether by observing an event you change that event.

<markbirbeck> :)

<Lachy> markbirbeck, how can mere observation change anything?

Heisenberg?

<markbirbeck> Ask Schrodinger...I'm just the messenger. ;)

<alessio> I'm alessio

<yamx> NRCc?

<Windrose> That'd be me ...

<scribe> Scribe: Steven

Steven: Welcome Tina! (Windrose)
... where are you located?

Tina: Stockholm at this moment

Announcements

Steven: Please fill in questionnaire
... http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2-ftf-june2007/

Mark: I propose Steven as chair

sHANE: sECOND
... Second

<yamx> Yam: second

<_alessio> line is very disturbed...

Validator

Shane: I patched the xmlns issue, they liked it and put it in!
... but there is a media type issue
... I proposed XHTML docs should be parsed as XML, regardless of the media type
... simply because it *is* XML
... this caused some confusion

<_alessio> I agree totally

Shane: and Olivier spoke, up and agreed.
... But Hixie and someone else was up in arms, but the validator team seems to agree.

<_alessio> I'm alessio, zakim

Tina: I agree. The mime type has nothing to do with the grammar, and the validator is checking the grammar

<ShaneM> BUG thread is at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1500

<Lachy> without respecting the MIME type, how do you intend to detemine if a document really is XML? Content sniffing?

Shane: I propose you should read the thread
... it is quite interesting
... My thing was just about the validator.
... Others think that there should be conformance checking as well as validation
... No one asked me for a formal resolution on this
... but how about it?

<ShaneM> For purposes of validation, the parsing mode must be XML because XHTML *is* XML, and our DTDs are XML DTDs.

Steven: Anybody object?

RESOLUTION: For purposes of validation, the parsing mode must be XML because XHTML *is* XML, and our DTDs are XML DTDs. (regardless of media type)

<Lachy> but text/html is not defined for content that requires XML processing. Content using that MIME type should (officially, according to HTML4) be SGML

Access module

Lachy, as chair, I have to tell you that you are not a member of the WG, and therefore we are obliged not to take your comments into account during WG meeting. You are free however to send comments to the list.

The XHTML2 WG is different from teh HTML WG where anyone may join.

Shane: We have this thing on the charter, and we know what it is called and what it is for. I just want to make sure we agree what it is about
... we are taking the access module from XHTML2 and making it into a module to be used with M12N
... for use with other modularised languages
... We have a driver for XHTML+RDFa, plus role
... if we add access, is that what we have been referring to as XHTML 1.2?

Mark: All that I meant was XHTML 1.1+ stuff; this sounds as good as any

Shane: Note that access won't work in existing UAs
... but I still think the accessibility community want it

Mark: By standardising on hooks like this, it does allow UAs to have something eventually

Shane: What happens with IE if it finds an access element in the head?

Mark: Nothing earth shattering

<_alessio> some blind people associations say accesskeys are not so useful

Mark: is it an empty element?

Shane: Yes

<_alessio> it's an open question because of user agents response

Mark: That's good
... then it doesn't cause any problem

Shane: Can I ask you to check it in the popular browsers?
... If access shows up in the DOM, then there is no reason to exclude it.
... and enabling technologies can hook in to it
... (I wish Rich were here)
... This helps me structure the module. I'd welcome a volunteer to help me put it together.
... you don't have to volunteer now, but think about it

Tina: Since my primary focus is accessibility, once I'm up to speed, I'd be happy to help

Alessio: I'd be happy to help with testing

<ShaneM> Current access module in XHTML 2 is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20070402/mod-access.html#s_accessmodule

<scribe> ACTION: Alessio to test 'popular' browsers on whether an access element in the head of a document turns up in the DOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

Recent issues

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0014

Typos

Steven: We say thankyou; he's wrong on the second point

re: OLStyle should be enumeration? LIStyle should be union

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0013

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to check Shane's schema comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]

Shane: In this case, Mimasa produced a non-normative schema, and he just mirrored the DTD

<ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/SCHEMA/xhtml-list-1.xsd

Steven: Do we use an enumeration in M12NS?

Shane: Pretty sure we don't
... oh wait, it's not even *inI M12N!
... It's presentational; we leave it to CSS

<ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-modularization-20070404/abstract_modules.html#s_listmodule

Shane: Yeah, they only take Common

<ShaneM> We don't support that attribute in M12N 1.1.... maybe in Legacy?

[curie] CURIE Syntax 1.0 - smtp: ?

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0011

Shane: We do support it in legacy modules, but it is just CDATA
... He's right; we'll fix it

xml: space declarated twice in SVG 1.1 and XHTML+MathML+SVG flat DTD

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0010

Shane: This has nothing to do with us; it is only the SVG bit that is in error
... Basic Transition?

Steven: I'm meeting with Steve next week, and we will put our agendas again

Shane: And M12N?
... Oh yes! We're gated on the Schema group comments

Steven: My action item
... will do it

Shane: Mark, will you test the changes that are a result of the Schema WG suggestions?

Mark: Yes. Let's do this offline.

<ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts page

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to send pointers to additions for Drafts page (RDFa stuff) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]

Shane: The drafts page should work in IE now

<ShaneM> redirects to here.... http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/Overview.html

Steven: Call next week? Mark and I will be in Banff for WWW2007, but I should be able to make it

Mark: Regrets from me, I shall be travelling

Steven: We'll have the call

<_alessio> ok

<Windrose> I should be able to make it.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Alessio to test 'popular' browsers on whether an access element in the head of a document turns up in the DOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to check Shane's schema comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to send pointers to additions for Drafts page (RDFa stuff) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/03/13 16:31:31 $

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Found Scribe: Steven
Inferring ScribeNick: Steven
Default Present: Steven, ShaneM, alessio, yamx, +04670855aaaa, Windrose, Mark_Birbeck, _alessio
Present: Steven ShaneM alessio yamx +04670855aaaa Windrose Mark_Birbeck _alessio
Regrets: Rich Susan
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007May/0003
Got date from IRC log name: 2 May 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/05/02-xhtml-minutes.html
People with action items: alessio steven
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