See also: IRC log, previous 2006-12-11
Ben: I've revived discussion of hGRDDL on the
GRDDL WG list; see "Re:
Review of testlist1#rdfa"
... the idea was that given lots of deployed microformats, perhaps it would
be good to use GRDDL to transform them to RDFa to preserve rendering
characteristics rather than directly to RDF
Michael: I like the idea
Michael: the Wiki seems to be dropping some
updates in the RecentChanges
report
... I've edited http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements
5-6 times but only the most recent appears
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa_Use_Cases_and_Requirements?action=info
Michael: the final version does show all the
changes
... but the recent
changes page doesn't show all the changes
ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]
Ben: I'm talking with Science Commons. Their use cases tend to be quite long so I'm working on distilling something down to the core
ACTION: [DONE] Ben update the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
Ben: shall we move the issues list to the wiki?
Michael: I'll volunteer to move it
ACTION: Michael move the issues list to the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action03]
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
ACTION: Ben add a forwarding pointer to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues when the new wiki issues list page is done [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
ACTION: [DONE] Mark to report on schema progress [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
Mark: I've talked with Shane and we're going to move forward using some templates we already have
ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]
Mark: the module is already complete. I've enlisted Shane because of his understanding of XHTML modularization and his ability to write specs quickly
Ben: does your current module have the latest striping and class decisions incorporated?
Mark: no, not yet
... but it won't take long to bring it into line
<benadida> looking at --> http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#ActionSummary
ACTION: [DONE] Elias to look into sharing Open Office with task force [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action11]
ACTION: Elias to send by email examples of HTML markup that could be problematic with reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action05] [WITHDRAWN]
ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Elias start an FAQ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]
Mark: I have to reproduce these from memory
ACTION: Mark write examples/tests of striping support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc.. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]
ACTION: Michael to research extended usages of RDFa in Wikis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]
Michael: I added several
... I tried to separate system metadata from others
Michael: does 8.1 capture what you were thinking, Ben?
Ben: begins to capture
... in a semantic wiki there are triples all over the place; every link has a
relationship
Michael: I could go into more detail but I really wanted to show that without any user action there is already metadata there and RDFa could be provided
Ben: can point out that all the triples from the semantic wiki can be included in the HTML
Michael: I'm not so deep into semantic wikis to
know if they want to go into client-side RDFa
... they're currently constructing RDF on the server side from the raw page
source
Ben: I need to resync on this; I've talked with Stefano Mazocchi
ACTION: Ben look at Semantic Media Wiki use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]
Michael: PDF
use case
... converting PDF to HTML can preserve the metadata using RDFa
... Mobile Device use case; I looked quickly at DELI and it seems feasible to
create this on the fly
Mark: doesn't seem quite the right way around; CC/PP is delivered by the client to the server
Ralph: that is my understanding as well; the server does some processing based on the client describing its capabilities
Mark: role attribute is used now a lot in the
mobile community
... to describe, e.g. that a div is a navigation bar or a footer
... with CC/PP you know what the device can do so the server can optimize the
placement of such things for the device
Michael: Publishing use case
... to emphasize use in blogging community
<MarkB_> On blogging: http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_chem-bla-ics_archive.html
<MarkB_> This guy is talking about using RDFa for chemistry.
Michael: might be nice to approach del.icio.us
ACTION: Michael review Mobile Device use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
Mark: chem-bla-ics is an example of a focussed blog that is more than simply a personal page
Ben: chemisty example might be better to go with Science Commons use case rather than just blogging
ACTION: Ben add chem-bla-ics use case to a science use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action17]
Mark: this also shows a need for namespaces
Ben: copy-and-paste use case is Mark's
Mark: yep, I'll work on it this week
Ben: I've received suggestions that the use
cases be more consumer-focussed and less publisher-focussed
... add more story lines, as the use cases are never just one-way
... next 2 Mondays are holidays. Are we able to meet later during the week of
1 January?
Mark: I'll be working off and on, but perhaps we can communicate more by email
Ben: next telecon will be 8 Jan then; we'll need to have a complete document by then to send to the WG for the 9th
Ralph: I'd like to see more detail in story lines in the use case document. Most of the detail is currently buried in the markup. This works for us but not for the general reader.
Ben: yes, I hope to flesh out the story lines following the GRDDL example
Ralph: from the use cases, we should be able to
distill out requirements
... summarized in a "list of requirements."
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/TR/webont-req/
Michael: where are our requirements? they should be called out specifically, as in the OWL UCR document
Ralph: I agree but I'm pessimistic about the available time
Michael: so we shouldn't claim that this document has requirements yet
Ben: we have Mark's update
... is it likely to be ready by 8 Jan?
<benadida> --> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
Mark: I hope so -- I'm keeping an eye out for Shane
Ben: I want to particularly highlight issues 4&7 role & class)
Mark: I'm happy with the proposal
Michael: whatever we decide needs to go into the RDFa syntax document soon
Ralph: I'm generally persuaded by Mark's arguments
Ben: we should confirm Steven's agreement
... issue 12 - CURIEs in predicate attributes
... I'm of the opinion that these should be CURIE/QName only, and not try to
add [] syntax
Ralph: the further we get from current HTML practice the harder we make our lives
Ben: sounds like we have consensus for just CURIE only
Ralph: I need to raise red flags about presuming a CURIE solution, especially for XHTML 1.1
Mark: we don't need to drop CURIEs just because of XHTML 1.1
Ben: issue 18 nested meta and link
... proposed resolution is to look up the tree for a meta containing
@about
... in Bob Ducharme's example in the use case, do we agree that the
interpretation is as Bob suggests? Making statements about the same
subject
Michael: I have a problem with reification in general. I doubt it's wise to include it in the first version.
Mark: this isn't reification
... we don't get reification until we put meta inside non-meta
[adjourned]