See also: IRC log
Good afternoon everybody
Jeff open the meeting
We have problems to connect to Zakim ...
<scribe> Scribe: Raphael
Jeff talk about the possibilities in the future, and mention the opportunity of having a WG
scribe: smooth transition between
an XG to a WG
... will be a topic of discussion tomorrow
... the previous XG (content labeling) is trying to become a WG
I'm trying to scribe
Oscar Celma is
an official new invited expert
Introduction: personal music collections have grown
Music information Place: Audio (music recording), Text (lyrics), Video (video clips, CD covers)
Song metadata includes editorial, acoustic and cultural information
Users are represented by their profiles including demographic, geographic and psychographic information
Metadata initiatives for describing Audio Content
ID3 v2, OGG, APE v2, MusicBrainz 2.1 (RDF data not yet supported)
see vocabularies page
ID3, OGG and APE are tag based (free attribute value pairs)
All these approaches focus on editorial information
Audio Ontologies (in OWL)
Kanzaki, Music Production, Music Recommendation
OGG Vorbis example
Interoperability problems and solutions:
scribe: Two general approaches:
1/ integration at RDF level (song, artist instances) ; 2/
ontology mapping ?
... but there is no really ontologies
Concrete example, see code in the wiki
Idea: take the commonalities between all the proposed tags by these schema (ID3, OGG, etc.)
Vassilis: for which reasons the ontology has been made ?
ID3 tags are inside the audio file
Jeff: is there some conflicting name between the various schemas ?
Advantages: possible scenarios ?
Create personalized playlists ... exploit song metadata (RDF), plus user profile
Upcoming gigs (user FOAF profile, geonames, RDF data about the venues and events
Simplify navigation in music collections through personalized views
integrate RDF music data into /facet
EM is Erik Mannens
Semi-automatic annotation of music
(link with the tagging use case)
Mention a wikilyrics that could have a webservice for getting the lyricsof a song
Paola: relation between a consumer and buisness; why not B2B ?
Oscar: it is possible
search for commonalities between the various schema, build under the Music Recommendation ontology
Do a ID3 to RDF translation
<scribe> ACTION: Oscar and Jacco to provide a first implementation by Christmas [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: Paola to provide a possible B2B scenario [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action02]
<mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
Raphael: General introduction, NewsML, XBRL. UC will focus on financial domain.
Thierry explains the 'Metadata Labels
scribe: TITLE tag contains a list
(even sentence) of keywords
... not sure if keywords stem from a controlled vocabulary
<raphael> Translating XBRL into Description Logic
<raphael> Information about companie, profit and loss, etc.
<scribe> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
<raphael> Possible application: expose NewsML information in RDF
Raphael: Combine (lightweight) NewsML with XBRL descriptions
<raphael> link them with RDF version of XBRL and DownJonesML
<raphael> B2B scenario
<raphael> Challenge: merging all the data
Jeff: Concrete Examples?
Raphael: Hopefully 01/2007 real
world data should be available
... Chris HW is in touch with DowJones
... Any contribution is welcome. Michael will try to get some real world examples from NM2
<scribe> ACTION: Raphael, Therry, and Chris to sync UC Wiki description with their new focus (financial domain) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action03]
Paola: How about using Reuters test corpus?
<scribe> ACTION: Paola to supply XG with reference to corpus and usage license till next week. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action04]
<raphael> Back after the coffee break
<raphael> Chrisa Tsinaraki will join this use case
<raphael> Motivation: MPEG-7 is a set of XML schemas
<raphael> ... lack of explicit and precise semantics
<raphael> ... effort to attach formal semantics to mpeg7 (ontologies)
<raphael> Example 1: semantically identically metadata can be represented in multiple ways
<raphael> Example 2: image representation in itself as a multimedia entity can be performed in multiple ways as well
<raphael> Example 3: a video segment can be a frame, a shot, a program
<raphael> Example 4: loose meaning of decomposition: not part/whole semantics
<raphael> Hunter: initially in DAML+OIL and then RDFS and OWL
<raphael> ... link to the ABC core model
<raphael> ... decomposition is captured using subclass constructs
<raphael> raphel: actually, the result of the decomposition, the segment !!!
<raphael> no formal axioms: an image cannot be decomposed temporally
<raphael> SMARTWeb approach: same problem, no such axioms
<raphael> Tsinaraki: translation of MPEG-7 MDS into OWL
<raphael> Example whith the variations between Tsinaraki and Hunter ontologies
<raphael> Possible solutions: 1/ mappings between the various ontologies ; 2/ build a core ontology ? ; 3/ formalize the profiles
<raphael> Scribenick: raphael
Chrisa presents the DS-MIRF framework
Transformations from OWL/RDF to MPEG-7/21 in both ways
use of a reconstruction ontology: introducing the ordering of the elements, the default values
the solution of the use case could be based on Chrisa approach
<ocelma> +1 too!
Sophia and Chrisa will join this use case
PB: nobody knows a use of some MPEG-7 ontologies ...
Raphael: why using these two ontologies ?
Vassilis: we do not focus on these two ontologies but rather on the mechanism for bridging multimedia ontologies
Michael: what this use case is about ?
Vassilis: there is various MPEG-7 ontologies
Oscar: propose to add a new
document focusing on MPEG-7
... taking the part in the vocabularies deliverable
Raphael: why not making a new document ?
<ocelma> that's what I meant! :-)
<mhausenblas> +1 , volunteer for creating it ...
<ocelma> +1 to contribute it (with Roberto Garcia, I hope!), once its created.
+1 to contribute too
Yannis: establish mappings
between this multimedia ontologies and the existing
vocabularies (FOAF, DC, ...)
... would be more lessons learned that can be further used rather than an example of a use case
Proposal: to take off MPEG-7 from the use case list and make a new standalone document
this document will focus on MPEG-7, the various ontologies, and their interoperability problems
<scribe> ACTION: Vassilis, Raphael, Oscar, Michael, Stamatia to set up a new Deliverable [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action05]
Thierry and Paul and Massimo at DFKI will join this deliverable
Susanne Boll presents the use case
Photos: today (pixel-based + additional information)
tomorrow: capture and derive semantics annotation
What we want to know about photos: who, when, where, how long, weather, place, location, surrounding, company, quality, what I did, moud
Is tagging enough ?
there is not unique reasonable description scheme for photos (EXIF, photoRDF, IPTC)
photo undergo cross-platform distribution search
need for low-level features
Yiannis: MPEG-A about photo collections
need for context and content
<ocelma> (similar as Music UC)
Existing standards: EXIF, IPTC, PhotoRDF, FOAF, DC, MPEG-7
scribe: metadata preservation and
... centralized vs decentralized storage
... lacking lean but comprehensive standard
What could be the solution ?
Face recognition is really important, as well as Event (using potentially contextual information)
Propose to have a standard way to include in the photo a link towards the description
scribe: so that photo application system can use the metadata to do ... cool stuff :-)
What kind of metadata ?
Focus on EXIF, a standard for visual features, a vocabulary for the content ...
Raphael: will you use RDF at all ?
Susanne: I'm not against, but not
big fan !
... my concern is about the size of the description
Erik will join this use case
<scribe> ACTION: Susanne to look again in the various systems and standards and identify 3-4 standards that together could be the solution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action06]
SMIL, SVG, Flash, SMIL BLP, SVG Tiny
Example of a SMIL document
Problem: you use metadata in the
select and assemble processes, but there is a semantics
... as soon as you transform it in SMIL or in Flash ... you loose the metadata !
What is lost: structural information is hidden in the format of the presentation, emergent semantics when authoring
What is needed: making discourse and structural information explicit for search and access to documents and fragments
Existing standards: LOM (Learning Objects metadata) and SMIL metadata module
Multimedia documents hide almost everything ... no description for search
scribe: an annotation problem, as well as an interoperability
Proposal: is this use case a
clear open issue ?
... no solutions seem exist
... we all clearly see the problems
... but not the solutions
... susanne will continue to edit her thoughts on the wiki
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to remind Susanne about what is this standard your group has developped ! [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html#action07]
Tobias will join the previous use case (Multimedia Authoring)
(From the Analysis Perspective)
Deal with semantic interoperability for automatic media interpretation / understanding
linking of low-level features to high level semantics
Example 1: lack of semantics in low-level descriptors (single media)
Example 2: interchange of semantics between media (multiple media)
This use case related to interchange of low-level descriptors for semantic interpretation
scribe: exchanging classifiers is
more interesting that exchanging descriptors
... MPEG-7 is useful for content-based retrieval
... but not for any semantic access
A user might want to exchange class descriptions between an imaging device, a set-top box, etc ... the process should be exchanged
exchange classifier parameters, and class descriptions
sketch of solution: multimedia core ontology, media descriptor ontology, classifier ontology, domain ontology
Raphael: sounds really close to the algorithm use case
Example contained in the use cases
Vassilis: sounds like more a
fusion problem that an interoperability problems
... will be discussed more tomorrow with the algorithm use case
... seems to have a lot of overlap
That close the meeting
Meeting starts tomorrow at 9:30 Greek time !!!!
See you tomorrow
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/plous/plus/ Succeeded: s/Chirs/Chris/ Succeeded: s/was/as/ Succeeded: s/buil/build/ Succeeded: s/Deliverabe/Deliverable/ Succeeded: s/all/Paul and Massimo at/ Succeeded: s/jacky?98/.../ Found Scribe: Raphael Inferring ScribeNick: raphael Found ScribeNick: mhausenblas Found ScribeNick: mhausenblas Found ScribeNick: raphael ScribeNicks: raphael, mhausenblas Present: Giorgos_Stamou Susanne_Boll Sofia Stamatia Chrisa_Tsinsaraki Paola Oscar Eric Tobias Michael Thierry Tomas Ioannis Raphael Jeff Vassilis Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Dec/0014.html Got date from IRC log name: 8 Dec 2006 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html People with action items: chris erik jacco michael oscar paola raphael stamatia susanne therry vassilis[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]