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11:45:53 <Jacco> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Dec/0014.html
11:46:11 <Jacco> rrsagent, make logs public
11:46:19 <Jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:46:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html Jacco
11:47:58 <Jacco> zakim, list conferences
11:47:58 <Zakim> I see no active conferences and none scheduled near this time
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11:52:27 <Jacco> Jacco has changed the topic to: MMSEM Athens F2F Meeting
11:53:05 <Jacco> Meeting: MMSEM Athens F2F Meeting, December 8-9 2006
11:53:11 <Jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:53:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html Jacco
12:02:29 <raphael> Chair: Jeff, Raphael
12:09:01 <raphael> Good afternoon everybody
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12:13:35 <raphael> Present: Giorgos Stamou, Susanne Boll, Sofia, Stamatia, Chrisa Tsinsaraki, Paola, Oscar, Eric, Tobias, Michael, Thierry, Tomas, Ioannis, Raphael, Jeff, Vassilis
12:14:34 <raphael> Jeff open the meeting
12:14:45 <raphael> We have problems to connect to Zakim ...
12:14:51 <raphael> Scribe: Raphael
12:15:03 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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12:17:11 <raphael> Jeff talk about the possibilities in the future, and mention the opportunity of having a WG
12:17:40 <raphael> ... smooth transition between an XG to a WG
12:18:54 <raphael> ... will be a topic of discussion tomorrow
12:19:08 <raphael> ... the previous XG (content labeling) is trying to become a WG
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12:24:03 <Jacco> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:24:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html Jacco
12:24:37 <raphael> I'm trying to scribe
12:25:36 <raphael> Topic: 1. Music Recommendation Use Case
12:25:43 <raphael> Oscar Celma is 
12:25:50 <raphael> an official new invited expert
12:26:42 <raphael> Introduction: personal music collections have grown
12:28:00 <raphael> Music information Place: Audio (music recording), Text (lyrics), Video (video clips, CD covers)
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12:28:46 <raphael> Song metadata includes editorial, acoustic and cultural information
12:29:30 <raphael> Users are represented by their profiles including demographic, geographic and psychographic information
12:30:27 <raphael> Use case
12:32:06 <raphael> Metadata initiatives for describing Audio Content
12:33:12 <raphael> ID3 v2, OGG, APE v2, MusicBrainz 2.1 (RDF data not yet supported)
12:33:23 <raphael> see vocabularies page
12:33:48 <raphael> ID3, OGG and APE are tag based (free attribute value pairs)
12:34:20 <raphael> All these approaches focus on editorial information
12:36:01 <raphael> Audio Ontologies (in OWL)
12:36:18 <raphael> Kanzaki, Music Production, Music Recommendation
12:36:21 <raphael> See vocabularies
12:37:45 <raphael> OGG Vorbis example
12:37:57 <raphael> Interoperability problems and solutions:
12:39:07 <raphael> ... Two general approaches: 1/ integration at RDF level (song, artist instances) ; 2/ ontology mapping ?
12:42:50 <raphael> ... but there is no really ontologies
12:43:01 <raphael> Concrete example, see code in the wiki
12:45:13 <raphael> Idea: take the commonalities between all the proposed tags by these schema (ID3, OGG, etc.)
12:45:47 <raphael> Vassilis: for which reasons the ontology has been made ?
12:46:37 <raphael> ID3 tags are inside the audio file
12:48:04 <raphael> Jeff: is there some conflicting name between the various schemas ?
12:49:39 <raphael> Advantages: possible scenarios ?
12:50:06 <raphael> Create personalized playlists ... exploit song metadata (RDF), plous user profile
12:50:54 <mhausenblas> s/plous/plus
12:51:23 <raphael> Upcoming gigs (user FOAF profile, geonames, RDF data about the venues and events
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12:53:19 <raphael> Simplify navigation in music collections through personalized views
12:53:54 <raphael> integrate RDF music data into /facet
12:54:45 <raphael> EM is Erik Mannens
12:55:04 <raphael> Semi-automatic annotation of music
12:55:12 <raphael> (link with the tagging use case)
12:56:50 <raphael> Semantic podcast
12:58:42 <raphael> Mention a wikilyrics that could have a webservice for getting the lyricsof a song
13:00:14 <raphael> Paola: relation between a consumer and buisness; why not B2B ?
13:04:18 <raphael> Oscar: it is possible
13:04:30 <raphael> Future Plans:
13:05:33 <raphael> search for commonalities between the various schema, build under the Music Recommendation ontology
13:05:49 <raphael> Do a ID3 to RDF translation
13:06:38 <raphael> ACTION: Oscar and Jacco to provide a first implementation by Christmas
13:06:58 <raphael> ACTION: Paola to provide a possible B2B scenario 
13:07:31 <raphael> Topic: 2. News Use Case (Thierry Declerk)
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13:11:07 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
13:12:32 <mhausenblas> Raphael: General introduction, NewsML, XBRL. UC will focus on financial domain.
13:13:18 <mhausenblas> Thierry explains the 'Metadata Labels
13:15:11 <mhausenblas> ... TITLE tag  contains a list (even sentence) of keywords
13:16:13 <mhausenblas> ... not sure if keywords stem from a controlled vocabulary
13:17:19 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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13:19:03 <raphael> Translating XBRL into Description Logic
13:20:08 <raphael> Information about companie, profit and loss, etc.
13:21:36 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
13:23:48 <raphael> Possible application: expose NewsML information in RDF
13:24:00 <mhausenblas> Raphael: Combine (lightweight) NewsML with XBRL descriptions
13:24:05 <raphael> link them with RDF version of XBRL and DownJonesML
13:24:05 <raphael> B2B scenario
13:24:25 <raphael> Challenge: merging all the data
13:25:05 <mhausenblas> Jeff: Concrete Examples?
13:26:00 <mhausenblas> Raphael: Hopefully 01/2007 real world data should be available 
13:26:35 <mhausenblas> ... Chirs HW is in touch with DowJones
13:27:45 <mhausenblas> s/Chirs/Chris
13:30:41 <mhausenblas> Raphael: Any contribution is welcome. Michael will try to get some real world examples from NM2
13:33:02 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Raphael, Therry, and Chris to sync UC Wiki description with their new focus (financial domain)
13:35:08 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:35:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:36:00 <mhausenblas> Paola: How about using Reuters test corpus?
13:36:59 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Paola to supply XG with reference to corpus and usage license till next week.
13:37:49 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html mhausenblas
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14:06:53 <raphael> Back after the coffee break
14:07:47 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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14:08:07 <raphael> Topic: 3. MPEG-7 Use Case (Stamatia)
14:08:41 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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14:13:39 <raphael> Chrisa Tsinaraki will join this use case
14:15:04 <raphael> Motivation: MPEG-7 is a set of XML schemas
14:15:24 <raphael> ... lack of explicit and precise semantics
14:15:44 <raphael> ... effort to attach formal semantics to mpeg7 (ontologies)
14:16:19 <raphael> Example 1: semantically identically metadata can be represented in multiple ways
14:17:13 <raphael> Example 2: image representation in itself as a multimedia entity can be performed in multiple ways was well
14:17:21 <raphael> s/was/as
14:18:03 <raphael> Example 3: a video segment can be a frame, a shot, a program
14:18:44 <raphael> Example 4: loose meaning of decomposition: not part/whole semantics
14:18:56 <raphael> Approaches:
14:19:35 <raphael> Hunter: initially in DAML+OIL and then RDFS and OWL
14:19:44 <raphael> ... link to the ABC core model
14:20:15 <raphael> ... decomposition is captured using subclass constructs
14:21:01 <raphael> raphel: actually, the result of the decomposition, the segment !!!
14:21:28 <raphael> no formal axioms: an image cannot be decomposed temporally
14:21:51 <raphael> SMARTWeb approach: same problem, no such axioms
14:22:39 <raphael> Tsinaraki: translation of MPEG-7 MDS into OWL
14:24:51 <raphael> Example whith the variations between Tsinaraki and Hunter ontologies
14:25:41 <raphael> Possible solutions: 1/ mappings between the various ontologies ; 2/ buil a core ontology ? ; 3/ formalize the profiles
14:25:49 <raphael> s/buil/build
14:26:39 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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14:27:49 <raphael> Scribenick: raphael
14:30:00 <raphael> Chrisa presents the DS-MIRF framework
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14:32:42 <raphael> Transformations from OWL/RDF to MPEG-7/21 in both ways
14:33:21 <raphael> use of a reconstruction ontology: introducing the ordering of the elements, the default values
14:35:45 <raphael> the solution of the use case could be based on Chrisa approach
14:37:01 <ocelma> +1 too!
14:38:03 <raphael> Sophia and Chrisa will join this use case
14:40:32 <raphael> PB: nobody knows a use of some MPEG-7 ontologies ...
14:40:53 <raphael> Raphael: why using these two ontologies ?
14:41:24 <raphael> Vassilis: we do not focus on these two ontologies but rather on the mechanism for bridging multimedia ontologies
14:42:38 <raphael> Michael: what this use case is about ?
14:42:59 <raphael> Vassilis: there is various MPEG-7 ontologies
14:45:37 <raphael> Oscar: propose to add a new document focusing on MPEG-7
14:45:50 <raphael> ... taking the part in the vocabularies deliverable
14:48:03 <raphael> Raphael: why not making a new document ?
14:48:37 <ocelma> that's what I meant! :-)
14:49:36 <mhausenblas> +1 , volunteer for creating it ...
14:50:57 <ocelma> +1 to contribute it (with Roberto Garcia, I hope!), once its created.
14:51:44 <raphael> +1 to contribute too
14:52:45 <raphael> Yannis: establish mappings between this multimedia ontologies and the existing vocabularies (FOAF, DC, ...)
14:54:28 <raphael> ... would be more lessons learned that can be further used rather than an example of a use case
14:59:18 <raphael> Proposal: to take off MPEG-7 from the use case list and make a new standalone document
14:59:34 <mhausenblas> +1
14:59:45 <raphael> this document will focus on MPEG-7, the various ontologies, and their interoperability problems
15:01:12 <raphael> ACTION: Vassilis, Raphael, Oscar, Michael, Stamatia to set up a new Deliverabe
15:01:29 <raphael> s/Deliverabe/Deliverable
15:02:32 <raphael> Thierry and all DFKI will join this deliverable
15:03:18 <raphael> Topic: 4. Photo Use Case
15:03:28 <mhausenblas> s/all/Paul and Massimo at
15:05:13 <raphael> Susanne Boll presents the use case
15:05:35 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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15:06:25 <raphael> Photos: today (pixel-based + additional information)
15:06:37 <raphael> tomorrow: capture and derive semantics annotation
15:07:16 <raphael> What we want to know about photos: who, when, where, how long, weather, place, location, surrounding, company, quality, what I did, moud
15:08:15 <raphael> Is tagging enough ?
15:08:57 <raphael> there is not unique reasonable description scheme for photos (EXIF, photoRDF, IPTC)
15:09:44 <raphael> photo undergo cross-platform distribution search
15:12:22 <raphael> need for low-level features
15:13:12 <raphael> Yiannis: MPEG-A about photo collections
15:13:43 <mhausenblas> http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mpa-pp/index.htm
15:14:18 <raphael> need for context and content
15:15:05 <ocelma> (similar as Music UC)
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15:16:37 <raphael> Existing standards: EXIF, IPTC, PhotoRDF, FOAF, DC, MPEG-7
15:16:52 <raphael> jacky?98
15:17:28 <raphael> s/jacky?98/...
15:18:01 <raphael> Interoperability problems:
15:18:18 <raphael> ... metadata preservation and enrichment
15:18:30 <raphael> ... centralized vs decentralized storage
15:18:52 <raphael> ... lacking lean but comprehensive standard
15:24:55 <raphael> What could be the solution ?
15:27:30 <raphael> Face recognition is really important, as well as Event (using potentially contextual information)
15:33:54 <raphael> Propose to have a standard way to include in the photo a link towards the description
15:34:11 <raphael> ... so that photo application system can use the metadata to do ... cool stuff :-)
15:34:17 <raphael> What kind of metadata ?
15:35:25 <raphael> Focus on EXIF, a standard for visual features, a vocabulary for the content ...
15:35:40 <raphael> Raphael: will you use RDF at all ?
15:35:51 <raphael> Susanne: I'm not against, but not big fan !
15:36:00 <raphael> ... my concern is about the size of the description
15:37:50 <raphael> Erik will join this use case
15:40:27 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:40:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html raphael
15:42:13 <raphael> ACTION: Susanne to look again in the various systems and standards and identify 3-4 standards that together could be the solution
15:43:39 <raphael> Topic: 5. Multimedia Authoring Use Case
15:44:13 <raphael> SMIL, SVG, Flash, SMIL BLP, SVG Tiny
15:45:17 <raphael> Example of a SMIL document
15:46:05 <raphael> Problem: you use metadata in the select and assemble processes, but there is a semantics barriers
15:46:25 <raphael> ... as soon as you transform it in SMIL or in Flash ... you loose the metadata !
15:48:34 <raphael> What is lost: structural information is hidden in the format of the presentation, emergent semantics when authoring
15:49:09 <raphael> What is needed: making discourse and structural information explicit for search and access to documents and fragments
15:49:49 <raphael> Existing standards: LOM (Learning Objects metadata) and SMIL metadata module
15:50:20 <raphael> Multimedia documents hide almost everything ... no description for search
15:50:35 <raphael> ... an annotation problem, as well as an interoperability
15:57:47 <raphael> Proposal: is this use case a clear open issue ?
15:59:08 <raphael> ... no solutions seem exist
15:59:17 <raphael> ... we all clearly see the problems
15:59:32 <raphael> ... but not the solutions
15:59:49 <raphael> ... susanne will continue to edit her thoughts on the wiki
16:00:30 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/12/08-mmsem-minutes.html raphael
16:05:34 <raphael> ACTION: Erik to remind Susanne about what is this standard your group has developped !
16:12:32 <raphael> Topic: 6. Semantic Media Retrieval Use Case
16:13:38 <raphael> Tobias will join the previous use case (Multimedia Authoring)
16:14:55 <raphael> Ioannis Pratikakis
16:15:05 <raphael> (From the Analysis Perspective)
16:15:52 <raphael> Deal with semantic interoperability for automatic media interpretation / understanding
16:16:06 <raphael> linking of low-level features to high level semantics
16:17:45 <raphael> Example 1: lack of semantics in low-level descriptors (single media)
16:18:01 <raphael> Example 2: interchange of semantics between media (multiple media)
16:18:53 <raphael> This use case related to interchange of low-level descriptors for semantic interpretation
16:20:01 <raphael> ... exchanging classifiers is more interesting that exchanging descriptors
16:20:36 <raphael> ... MPEG-7 is useful for content-based retrieval
16:20:47 <raphael> ... but not for any semantic access
16:24:21 <raphael> Interoperability problems
16:25:53 <raphael> A user might want to exchange class descriptions between an imaging device, a set-top box, etc ... the process should be exchanged
16:26:05 <raphael> Solution:
16:26:21 <raphael> exchange classifier parameters, and class descriptions
16:28:31 <raphael> sketch of solution: multimedia core ontology, media descriptor ontology, classifier ontology, domain ontology
16:29:52 <raphael> Raphael: sounds really close to the algorithm use case
16:32:10 <raphael> Example contained in the use cases
16:32:24 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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16:41:11 <raphael> Vassilis: sounds like more a fusion problem that an interoperability problems
16:43:59 <raphael> ... will be discussed more tomorrow with the algorithm use case
16:44:07 <raphael> ... seems to have a lot of overlap
16:45:33 <raphael> That close the meeting
16:48:51 <raphael> Meeting starts tomorrow at 9:30 Greek time !!!!
16:48:54 <raphael> See you tomorrow
16:49:00 <raphael> rrsagent, draft minutes
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