RIF WG Weekly Teleconference 08012006

1 Aug 2006

See also: IRC log






<sandro> Deborah_Nichols, are you available to Scribe? I think it's your turn (of the people likely to be here today).

<sandro> Scribe: Deborah_Nichols

<FrankMcCabe> zakim mute me

<Donald_Chapin> Do I need to do anything?

<Donald_Chapin> ok

<scribe> ScribeNick: Deborah_Nichols

<johnhall> Sorry, completely forgot

<johnhall> Will do it right after this meetin

<scribe> Chair: Sandro Hawke

<sandro> need regrets added

Approval of minutes

<igor> +1

<sandro> resolved: minutes of 7/18 approved once regrets section added

Minutes are approved with regrets section to be added

Please post regrets if you're not going to attend Aug. 15 telecon.

<sandro> sandro: shall we talk about Michael's semantics proposal at all today?

Michael Kifer's semantics proposal. Postponed.

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/products/5

Use cases

<sandro> action 58, sandro, not done

Action 58 (Sandro) - Continued

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/69

<sandro> Alex?

Alex's action to contact vendors to request feedback

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/68

Alex has been in contact with JBoss personnel and is awaiting feedback. They might participate.


Action 69 - Continued

<sandro> Action 68 - Partial as well.

Action 68 (Alex) - partially fulfilled, continued

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/72

<Donald_Chapin> still open

Action 72 - UCR working draft issues - Continued (Don Chapin)

RIFRAF Questionnaire

Harold: Question about the tracker. His action item # 64 was completed but not marked as Closed.

<Harold> Action 64 is closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0037.html

Sandro: In general, the Chairs try to update status, but Harold can do it.

Sandro has now closed Action 64.

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/products/7

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/79

<sandro> continued

Actions on RIFRAF: Action 79 is continued

Other actions are Axel's; he is not in attendance today.

changes in 3.1 (decidability)

Chair asks for any additional comments on RIFRAF

<sandro> no comments from anybodyu

requirements moved to RIFRAF

<sandro> no comments from anybody

<scribe> Chair: any comments on Paula's email, or other proposals?

Some new discriminators for RIFRAF

<sandro> no comments from anybody

<scribe> Chair: any comments on new discriminators for RIFRAF?

<sandro> Hassan: also e-mail from csma yesterday

Hassan: Christian sent an email on discriminators.
... Agrees with Gary that the notion is confused, depending on what is considered to be a rule...
... Christian proposed some things to clarify, and Hassan is not sure he understands all csma's points....
... However, does agree with csma's point that we not use the terms 'body' and 'head'...
... because the terms 'body' and 'head' are not used consistently across the rules community sub-groups.
... Understands the need for a "clean" vocabulary about rules.
... Is willing to work with csma to come up with a proposal.

<sandro> ACTION: Hassan to write response to Christian's proposal, asking for clarifications where necessary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-minutes.html#action01]

Action to Hassan to work with csma on rule vocabulary terms.

<AlexKozlenkov> how many submissions so far?

Harold: will post link to prior discussion on terminology

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/RAFQuestionnaire/results

RIFRAF Questionnaire

<Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rulesystem_Arrangement_Framework

<scribe> Chair: So far there have been 3 responses....

<Harold> Section "Mapping between deductive rule and reactive rule terminology"

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html

<johnhall> Donald and I didn't have time to turn the questionnaire with colleagues on our team

<sandro> Sandro: n3, prolog -- hopefully soon

<sandro> Harold: oo-jdew

<sandro> Harold: oo-jdrew

<DavidHirtle> OO jDREW generally

<sandro> Harold: using the table.

<AlexKozlenkov> what about other people's systems?

<scribe> Chair: Polling attendees about their participation in the Questionnaire

Alex: [what was the upshot?]

<Harold> This ("Mapping between deductive rule and reactive rule terminology") was basically done by Gary (I mostly assisted), and should now again be relevant for Christian and Hassan.

Alex has already submitted for Prova language.

David Hirtle: No plans to submit.

Deborah: Will propose to MSR team doing it for SWRL

MikeDean: Peter is also working on SWRL.

<sandro> Frank: planing to do GO -- typed

<scribe> Chair: Will be fine to have two views of SWRL,

Frank: Will do it for GO language

<igor> I have no plans for another language

Igor: No plans for another language. Already did Prolog.

<sandro> JeffP - CIF -- planned -- need to talk to some people on holiday

JeffP plans to cover CIF

<sandro> John: want to do SBVR -- with help from Terry Halpin

John Hall: Is there a new deadline, since the cutoff was yesterday?

<sandro> Don: have changes from last week been made

<sandro> Don: Looking for deadline.

John Hall: Is interested in doing SBVR with help from Terry Halpin

<johnhall> \akim, mute me

<sandro> StellaMitchell: working with internal ECA language

Stella: Currently working with an event-condition-action language that is an internal IBM language, not a product

<scribe> Chair: suggests looking at Paula's discriminators to see if they make sense for Stella's ECA work

<sandro> Sandro: look at Paula's suggested descriminitators

<sandro> Hassan: I did this for LIFE and Ilog's products before -- need to put it on Questionnaire

Hassan: Haven't done the questionnaire but provided descriptions early on for Ilog and LIFE.

<AlexKozlenkov> A reminder of a link to Paula's descriminators?

<scribe> Chair: Hassan please transfer his earlier work to the Questionnaire page.

<sandro> Gary: I'll do it for Jess or Oracles's lang -- but I want to wait for Paula's work to be in questionnaire

Gary: Would like to incorporate Paula's work in the questionnaire before doing his work on Jess or on Oracle's language.

<johnhall> +1

<AlexKozlenkov> Where are they linked, please?

Proposed: Add Paula's discriminators to the Questionnaire.

<sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html

<AlexKozlenkov> Thanks a lot

<sandro> Gary and Hasson: proposing that be added

<AlexKozlenkov> Sounds reasonable

<FrankMcCabe> +1

<FrankMcCabe> yes

<AlexKozlenkov> Just now skimming through

<sandro> Gary: there's a lot of talk about events, but it's better aligned to PR terminology

Gary: There's a lot in Paula's discriminators about events that doesn't occur in production rule; nonetheless it's better aligned to PR than the deduction-oriented questions.

<scribe> Chair: Seems to be agreement among attendees to add these questions but may not have a quorum to decide the question.

<Harold> The questionnaire should be filled out for all/most of the languages/systems "Rule Systems" page (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/List_of_Rule_Systems)

<scribe> Chair: Note general support; we will conclude the question by email.

Harold: Has posted a link to the list of all rule systems that was generated previously....

<SaidTabet> Events are a whole area currently explored and known in the industry as 'Event Streaming' or 'Complex Events Processing', there was a workshop on the topic earlier this year and the topics of ECA rules came up...Will post the URL later

Harold: Recommends that the Questionnaire be filled out for each of those languages.

<scribe> Chair: Create a link from the Questionnaire to the List of Rule Systems and track that each is done.

<sandro> Mike_Dean: I'd be happy to review the entries for SWRL

Mike Dean: Volunteers to review the SWRL entries....

<sandro> Sandro: would you be willing to do N3?

<sandro> Mike: I'll review yours!

Mike Dean: asked by the chair to do N3, would prefer to review the chair's.

Philippe: Not committed at the moment to doing the Questionnaire.

<sandro> PhilippeB: might do jrules

<sandro> ... But want to discuss with csma and hak before committing

Philippe: But would like to apply the questionnaire on JRules and NC sharp, ...

But before committing would like to discuss with csma.

Jos: It's on his to-do stack to do N3.

<sandro> JosDeRoo: euler/n3 - in the coming weeks.

Jos: Would be sometime in the coming week.

Michael Kifer: Is not planning to do an additional language.

Leora: Plans to do another internal IBM language (called "ESN" internally but not really named). Not before next Friday.

<sandro> LeoraMorgenstern: an internal language, subset of FOL, by a week from friday

Mala: Will touch base with Leora and then make a commitment.

<sandro> johnhall, for Said: for RuleML.

John Hall: Said plans to do the Questionnaire for RuleML.

<scribe> Chair: That concludes the Questionnaire round-robin.

Harold: Action (# ??) - please change the due date to one week from today; it was too tight.

<scribe> Chair: Updates Harold's action due date.

<scribe> Chair: Continue Hassan's action for mapping condition language, to be due next week.

<scribe> Chair: Michael posted his action result this morning. Closed.

<scribe> Chair: Paul not here.

s Paula/Paul

<scribe> Chair: Sandro's items also continued.

<FrankMcCabe> see you...

<scribe> Chair: now adjourned.

<Hassan> quit

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/products/7

<SaidTabet> Bye everyone

<sandro> scribenick: Deborah_Nichols

<sandro> scribe: Deborah_Nichols

<sandro> scribenick: Deborah_Nichols

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Hassan to write response to Christian's proposal, asking for clarifications where necessary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/08/01 16:11:36 $

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Possibly Present: Alex AlexKozlenkov DavidHirtle David_Hirtle Deborah Deborah_Nichols Don Donald_Chapin Frank FrankMcCabe Gary GaryHallmark Gary_Hallmark Harold Hassan Hassan_Ait-Kaci IBM IPcaller Igor JeffP Jeff_Pan John Jos JosDeRoo Jos_De_Roo Leora LeoraMorgenstern Leora_Morgenstern Mala MalaMehrotra Mala_Mehrotra MichaelKifer Mike MikeDean Mike_Dean NRCC P12 P17 P49 Philippe PhilippeB Philippe_Bonnard Proposed SaidTabet Stella StellaMitchell Uta aaaa johnhall joined mdean rif sandro scribenick was
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        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Got date from IRC log name: 1 Aug 2006
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/08/01-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: hassan

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