15 Jun 2006

See also: IRC log


Jim Allan




<jallan> title: User Agent Teleconference for 15 June 2006

hi Jim - have you set up?

<jallan> yes

oops important phone call- I'll be there in a few mins

<jallan> relevance.

discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and

<jallan> relevance.

<jallan> Discuss CP 1.2 activate event handlers

JA: In all example techs we ref the DOM2..Cathy saying we should ref DOM 3...
... Also thinking we should ref the Mac and Linux versions...

PP: Linux - software uses ATK
... Browser point of view is ATK

JA: MSAA like ATK?

PP: Not totally sure ... but thinks MSAA provides both...
... Assistive tech side is called: ATSPI

<jallan> Assistive tech interfaces with ATSPI on Linux

JA: So we should fix DOM techs and add at least the linux

<jallan> gnome API, eclipse API, Mac OSX - carbon & cocoa

<jallan> all are accessibility APS for different platforms (OS)

Eclispse is a toolkit.

PP: Eclipse unlikely to be something a browser would run on

JA: What about knowing that handlers exist before being able to activate...
... Think we need to add a mention of this
... Sound reasonable?
... Maybe let's do a longer search
... Watching WCAG group using bugzilla...

JR: Explains a bit about bugzilla, wiki, some auwg email practices

Cathy's comment concerning 1.3

"Under 1.3 Provide text messages, we need to add a technique about allowing

non-essential alerts and text messages to be optional (turned off by the

user if desired).


<jallan> What is a non-essential alert? How is the UA to

<jallan> determine what is essential?

PP: ex. firefox pops up alert that a pop-up has been blocked...
... user can then config whether thy consider that essential.

<jallan> Jan: javascript error

JA: Would consider pop-up blocking emsg essential

<jallan> jan: the page doesn't break, to the user the page looks fine, is that non-essential?

PP: She may also have been referring to popups by the content...

<jallan> javascript error reporting is configurable in IE

PP: but can't know importance without metadata
... This checkpoint does also cover content interface msgs

JA: reading...user interface controls covers user interface and content interface.
... Actually thinks CP 1.3 only covers the user interface (not the content interface)
... Will this apply to user interfaces of extensions.

<jallan> if a quicktime player is an object in a player, are its controls part of the chrome.

<jallan> Jan: I think yes.

JA: It gets fuzzy...
... WHen you start or stop it like a link but there are additional controls



PP: Treating it like chrome but not sure.

<jallan> who decides what something looks like?

<jallan> in a web page, the UA controls the rendering. but within an object it has it's own style.

<jallan> Jan: so it is not the same type of content.

<jallan> seems more like compound document.

JA: Because there is external application inside
... When you TAB in and give it focus the UA doesn't know about it
... DOM isn't changed by the contained app
... Essentially we are talking about embeeded ua

PP: Flash - in firefox - proxies the flash to the flash app. Looks like the containing browser.

JA: In IE, Flash talks to MSAA, the browser stands back.
... When you are inside one of those embedded tools you are inside another UA and the rules apply to it.

CL: They are completely separate UA's
... Launching user agent doesn't understand the content - just knows it exists

JA: So embedded one should still follow 1.3.

CL: New WCAG req to turn off non-essential alerts.
... UAAG lacks mention of turning on or off msgs.

JAL Gives javascript error example.

CL: Right - this CP refers to the user interface not the content interface

JA: We just say if there is an alert it needs a text msg - and in back we say configure everything...

CL: We also don't ask for any alerts.

JA: THat may be hairy.

CL: May need them for mutation events when content changes

<jallan> CL: referring to CP 2.1

JA: is this where we need to expand for AJAX
... Don't want to go there yet
... to change guidelines.

CL: THere's also all sorts of programmatic access things.

JA: Under 2.1 we prob need to add some techs related to mutation events in DHTML

<scribe> ACTION: CL to Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]

JA: Brings CL up to date on some earlier discussion.

CL: We should at least point to specs of IDL's (Interface Defintion Languages)

JA: Next time we need to thrash on these some more on GL 2. Let's send to list and discuss on call.

PP: Won't be here next wk. CL not here the next wk after that.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: CL to Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/06/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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