IRC log of ua on 2006-06-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:44:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:44:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
17:44:48 [jallan]
zakim, this will be wai_u
17:44:48 [Zakim]
ok, jallan; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
17:45:14 [jallan]
title: User Agent Teleconference for 15 June 2006
17:45:21 [jallan]
Chair: Jim Allan
17:59:26 [JR]
JR has joined #ua
18:00:26 [JR]
hi Jim - have you set up?
18:00:47 [jallan]
18:01:01 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
18:01:08 [Zakim]
18:02:13 [JR]
oops important phone call- I'll be there in a few mins
18:02:22 [Zakim]
18:03:04 [parente]
parente has joined #ua
18:10:12 [jallan]
agenda+discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and
18:10:12 [jallan]
18:10:34 [jallan]
zakim, take up agendum 1
18:10:34 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and" taken up [from jallan]
18:10:55 [jallan]
topic: discuss review pf UAAG techniques for Guidelines 1 & 2 for currency and
18:10:55 [jallan]
18:11:25 [Zakim]
18:11:25 [jallan]
Discuss CP 1.2 activate event handlers
18:12:39 [JR]
JA: In all example techs we ref the DOM2..Cathy saying we should ref DOM 3...
18:13:02 [JR]
JA: Also thinking we should ref the Mac and Linux versions...
18:13:58 [JR]
PP: Linux - software uses ATK
18:14:27 [JR]
PP: Browser point of view is ATK
18:14:36 [JR]
JA: MSAA like ATK?
18:15:22 [JR]
PP: Not totally sure ... but thinks MSAA provides both...
18:15:38 [JR]
PP: Assistive tech side is called: ATSPI
18:15:43 [jallan]
Assistive tech interfaces with ATSPI on Linux
18:16:17 [JR]
JA: So we should fix DOM techs and add at least the linux
18:17:20 [jallan]
gnome API, eclipse API, Mac OSX - carbon & cocoa
18:17:39 [jallan]
all are accessibility APS for different platforms (OS)
18:18:31 [JR]
Eclispse is a toolkit.
18:19:07 [JR]
PP: Eclipse unlikely to be something a browser would run on
18:20:08 [JR]
JA: What about knowing that handlers exist before being able to activate...
18:20:27 [JR]
JA: Think we need to add a mention of this
18:20:56 [JR]
JA: Sound reasonable?
18:21:39 [JR]
JA: Maybe let's do a longer search
18:23:17 [JR]
JA: Watching WCAG group using bugzilla...
18:25:27 [JR]
JR: Explains a bit about bugzilla, wiki, some auwg email practices
18:25:45 [JR]
Topic: Cathy's comment concerning 1.3
18:25:59 [JR]
"Under 1.3 Provide text messages, we need to add a technique about allowing
18:25:59 [JR]
non-essential alerts and text messages to be optional (turned off by the
18:25:59 [JR]
user if desired).
18:26:00 [JR]
18:26:36 [jallan]
What is a non-essential alert? How is the UA to
18:26:36 [jallan]
determine what is essential?
18:27:45 [JR]
PP: ex. firefox pops up alert that a pop-up has been blocked...
18:28:07 [JR]
PP: user can then config whether thy consider that essential.
18:28:44 [jallan]
Jan: javascript error
18:29:14 [JR]
JA: Would consider pop-up blocking emsg essential
18:29:24 [jallan]
jan: the page doesn't break, to the user the page looks fine, is that non-essential?
18:29:49 [JR]
PP: She may also have been referring to popups by the content...
18:30:00 [jallan]
javascript error reporting is configurable in IE
18:30:01 [JR]
PP: but can't know importance without metadata
18:31:54 [JR]
PP: This checkpoint does also cover content interface msgs
18:32:59 [JR]
JA: reading...user interface controls covers user interface and content interface.
18:34:10 [JR]
JA: Actually thinks CP 1.3 only covers the user interface (not the content interface)
18:35:04 [JR]
JA: Will this apply to user interfaces of extensions.
18:36:43 [jallan]
if a quicktime player is an object in a player, are its controls part of the chrome.
18:36:55 [jallan]
Jan: I think yes.
18:37:17 [JR]
JA: It gets fuzzy...
18:37:39 [JR]
JA: WHen you start or stop it like a link but there are additional controls
18:38:15 [JR]
18:39:05 [JR]
18:39:37 [JR]
PP: Treating it like chrome but not sure.
18:40:35 [jallan]
who decides what something looks like?
18:41:14 [jallan]
in a web page, the UA controls the rendering. but within an object it has it's own style.
18:41:29 [jallan]
Jan: so it is not the same type of content.
18:41:46 [jallan]
seems more like compound document.
18:42:12 [JR]
JA: Because there is external application inside
18:43:15 [JR]
JA: When you TAB in and give it focus the UA doesn't know about it
18:43:57 [JR]
JA: DOM isn't changed by the contained app
18:44:19 [JR]
JA: Essentially we are talking about embeeded ua
18:45:03 [JR]
PP: Flash - in firefox - proxies the flash to the flash app. Looks like the containing browser.
18:45:53 [JR]
JA: In IE, Flash talks to MSAA, the browser stands back.
18:46:37 [Zakim]
18:46:54 [JR]
JA: When you are inside one of those embedded tools you are inside another UA and the rules apply to it.
18:47:00 [cklaws]
cklaws has joined #ua
18:48:15 [JR]
CL: They are completely separate UA's
18:48:51 [JR]
CL: Launching user agent doesn't understand the content - just knows it exists
18:49:19 [JR]
JA: So embedded one should still follow 1.3.
18:49:43 [JR]
CL: New WCAG req to turn off non-essential alerts.
18:50:10 [JR]
CL: UAAG lacks mention of turning on or off msgs.
18:50:36 [JR]
JAL Gives javascript error example.
18:51:26 [JR]
CL: Right - this CP refers to the user interface not the content interface
18:52:25 [JR]
JA: We just say if there is an alert it needs a text msg - and in back we say configure everything...
18:53:01 [JR]
CL: We also don't ask for any alerts.
18:53:11 [JR]
JA: THat may be hairy.
18:53:29 [JR]
CL:May need them for mutation events when content changes
18:53:48 [jallan]
CL: referring to CP 2.1
18:54:37 [JR]
JA: is this where we need to expand for AJAX
18:54:48 [JR]
JA: Don't want to go there yet
18:55:04 [JR] change guidelines.
18:55:52 [JR]
CL: THere's also all sorts of programmatic access things.
18:57:11 [JR]
JA: Under 2.1 we prob need to add some techs related to mutation events in DHTML
18:58:00 [JR]
Action CL: Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events
18:59:42 [JR]
JA: Brings CL up to date on some earlier discussion.
19:00:07 [JR]
CL: We should at least point to specs of IDL's (Interface Defintion Languages)
19:01:09 [JR]
JA: Next time we need to thrash on these some more on GL 2. Let's send to list and discuss on call.
19:01:58 [JR]
PP: Won't be here next wk. CL not here the next wk after that.
19:02:37 [Zakim]
19:02:38 [Zakim]
19:02:45 [JR]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:02:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate JR
19:02:45 [Zakim]
19:02:52 [JR]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:02:59 [JR]
Zakim, bye
19:02:59 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, [IBM], [IPcaller]
19:02:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:03:06 [JR]
RRSAgent, bye
19:03:06 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
19:03:06 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: CL to Will look a bit more into techs to add to 2.1 for DHTML mutation events [1]
19:03:06 [RRSAgent]
recorded in