Edit comment LC-587 for Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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Comment LC-587

Comment Shortname:

Commenter: Jim Thatcher <jim@jimthatcher.com> on behalf of JimThatcher.com

Message-id:

Section of the document concerned:

[Free text description]Document as a wholeIntroduction Related Documents Authoring tools The Role of User Agents The Four Principles of Accessibility Important New Terms Used in WCAG 2.0 Conformance Technology assumptions and the "baseline" Conformance levels and the baseline Conformance claims Content that conforms to WCAG 1.0 How to refer to WCAG 2.0 from other documents Guideline 1.1 Success Criterion 1.1.1 Guideline 1.2 Success Criterion 1.2.1 Success Criterion 1.2.2 Success Criterion 1.2.3 Success Criterion 1.2.4 Success Criterion 1.2.5 Success Criterion 1.2.6 Success Criterion 1.2.7 Guideline 1.3 Success Criterion 1.3.1 Success Criterion 1.3.2 Success Criterion 1.3.3 Success Criterion 1.3.4 Success Criterion 1.3.5 Guideline 1.4 Success Criterion 1.4.1 Success Criterion 1.4.2 Success Criterion 1.4.3 Success Criterion 1.4.4 Guideline 2.1 Success Criterion 2.1.1 Success Criterion 2.1.2 Guideline 2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.1 Success Criterion 2.2.2 Success Criterion 2.2.3 Success Criterion 2.2.4 Success Criterion 2.2.5 Success Criterion 2.2.6 Guideline 2.3 Success Criterion 2.3.1 Success Criterion 2.3.2 Guideline 2.4 Success Criterion 2.4.1 Success Criterion 2.4.2 Success Criterion 2.4.3 Success Criterion 2.4.4 Success Criterion 2.4.5 Success Criterion 2.4.6 Success Criterion 2.4.7 Success Criterion 2.4.8 Guideline 2.5 Success Criterion 2.5.1 Success Criterion 2.5.2 Success Criterion 2.5.3 Success Criterion 2.5.4 Guideline 3.1 Success Criterion 3.1.1 Success Criterion 3.1.2 Success Criterion 3.1.3 Success Criterion 3.1.4 Success Criterion 3.1.5 Success Criterion 3.1.6 Guideline 3.2 Success Criterion 3.2.1 Success Criterion 3.2.2 Success Criterion 3.2.3 Success Criterion 3.2.4 Success Criterion 3.2.5 Guideline 4.1 Success Criterion 4.1.1 Success Criterion 4.1.2 Guideline 4.2 Success Criterion 4.2.1 Success Criterion 4.2.2 Success Criterion 4.2.3 Success Criterion 4.2.4 Appendix A: Glossary Appendix B: Checklist Appendix C: Acknowledgements Appendix D: Comparison of WCAG 1.0 checkpoints to WCAG 2.0 Appendix E: References
or

Refinement of the section concerned:

Status:

open proposal pending resolved_yes resolved_no resolved_partial other assigned to Nobody Abma, Jake Abou-Zahra, Shadi Allan, Jim Auclair, Christopher Avila, Jonathan Babinszki, Tom Bailey, Bruce Bernard, Renaldo Bernier, Alex Blake, Matthew Boudreau, Denis Brewer, Judy Butler, Shari Campbell, Alastair Carlson, Laura Chakravarthula, Srinivasu Cirrincione, Pietro Conway, Vivienne Cooper, Michael Crutchfield, Elizabeth Deltour, Romain Dick, Wayne Ding, Chaohai Dirks, Kim Dixit, Shwetank Draffan, E.A. Duggin, Alistair Eggert, Eric Elledge, Michael Faulkner, Steve Ferraz, Reinaldo Fiers, Wilco Fischer, Detlev Foliot, John Garrish, Matt Garrison, Alistair Gower, Michael Guarino Reid, Loretta Hakkinen, Markku Haritos-Shea, Katie Henry, Shawn Hoffmann, Thomas Horton, Sarah Isager, Kasper Jensen, Tobias Christian Johansson, Stefan Johlic, Marc Johnson, Rick Jones, Crystal Joys Andersen, Wilhelm Kapoor, Shilpi Keim, Oliver Kirkpatrick, Andrew Kirkwood, John Kiss, Jason Kraft, Maureen Ku, JaEun Kurapati, Sujasree Lauke, Patrick Lauriat, Shawn Lee, Steve Lemon, Gez Li, Alex Li, Kepeng Li, Liangcheng Loiselle, Chris Lowney, Greg Lui, Edwina Lund, Adam Ma, Jia MacDonald, David Mace, Amanda Manser, Erich Martin, Debra McCormack, Scott McMeeking, Chris McSorley, Jan Milliken, Neil Montgomery, Rachael Mueller, Mary Jo nicole, windmann Niemann, Gundula Nurthen, James O Connor, Joshue Oh, Jeong-Hun Panchang, Sailesh Pandhi, Charu Pasi, Aparna Patch, Kimberly Philipp, Melanie Pluke, Mike Pouncey, Ian Repsher, Stephen Rochford, John Runyan, Marla Savva, Andreas Sawczyn, Steve Schnabel, Stefan Seeman-Kestenbaum, Lisa Sims, Glenda Singh, Avneesh Skotkjerra, Stein Erik Sloan, David Smith, Alan Smith, Jim Solomon, Adam Spellman, Jeanne F Strobbe, Christophe Suprock, Greg Swallow, David Thompson, Kenneth Thyme, Anne Ueki, Makoto Vaishnav, Jatin Vanderheiden, Gregg Venkata, Manoj Wahlbin, Kathleen Wang, Can WANG, WEI White, Jason Zelmanowicz, Erica Zerner, Adam Zhang, Mengni

Type: substantive editorial typo question general comment undefined

Resolution status:

Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter

Response status:

No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):

Comment:

Part of Item:
Comment Type: TE
Comment (including rationale for proposed change):

I am doing final copy editing of a book chapter on forms.

I had talked about how clear the January version of WCAG20 was about forms:

SC 4.1.3 The label of each user interface control in the Web content that accepts input from the user can be programmatically determined and is explicitly associated with the control.

But now that has apparently been replaced by:

SC 4.1.2 For all user interface components, the name and role can be programmatically determined, values that can be set by the user can be programmatically set, and notification of changes to these items is available to user agents, including assistive technologies.

The problem is that 4.1.2 is absolutely inadequate. The \"Role\" of text input field is \"text input\"; the name could be \"keyinput\". 4.1.2 is basic software accessibility - leaving to the AT the process of figuring out what the prompt (label) is.

I just talked with John (who sounds terrific) and he pointed out that -

1.3.1 Information and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined, and notification of changes to these is available to user agents, including assistive technologies.

Served the same purpose as 4.1.3 - I agree. But it is abstract. It requires interpretation.

With the Last Call version of WCAG 2.0 there is no success criterion that specifically addresses labeling forms and I think that is a very serious mistake.



Proposed Change:

Please reinstate 4.1.3.

Related issues: (space separated ids)

WG Notes: [TEAMC] [] See proposal at http://tinyurl.com/3ac22b discussed by Team C on 19 June 2006. (Part of this proposal was to add a "failure due to omitting labels for form controls for item selection or text input".) The definition of "relationships" is also relevant; see thread starting at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006AprJun/0357.html previous proposal: [PARTIAL] @@change wording of 4.1.2 to "For all user interface components, the name, role, perceivable properties and relationships can be programmatically determined, values that can be set by the user can be programmatically set, and notification of changes to these items is available to user agents, including assistive technologies." @@respond with: "Labels for form controls are covered by SC 1.3.1, except for labels that are not visible. For this reason we have merged the text of SC 4.1.3 from the January 2006 draft with the current text of SC 4.1.2. This also means all of the 'programmatic control' provisions are now together." -- Discussed on the 22 June 2006 teleconference Resolution: Do not accept the proposed resolution for LC-587. Action item to Gregg, Bruce, Becky to see if it can be made clearer that 1.3.1 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2006/06/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html Bruce adds: There is also some disconnect between SC 1.3.1/4.1.2 and §508 1194.22(n) which reads: When electronic forms are designed to be completed on-line, the form shall allow people using assistive technology to access the information, field elements, and functionality required for completion and submission of the form, including all directions and cues. The “all directions and cues� portion of the above was more directly addressed by the deleted 4.1.3 that Jim is writing about. [previous proposal below] {partial-accept} @@ Create an additional "situation" in How to Meet 4.1.2 entitled "The accessible name for user interface components is provided in text external to the component". Introductory text: "As per SC 2.4.5, the name should function as a descriptive label". Techniques * H44 * Advisory technique "Positioning labels to maximize predictability of relationships" (draft at http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Positioning_labels_to_maximize_predictability_of_relationships) Respond with: The WG feels this requirement is properly covered under 4.1.2 and did not wish to reinstate a SC that would be redundant with that. However, we agree that it's difficult for users to understand that form labeling is part of 4.1.2. Accordingly, a situation for labels has been created in the how to meet document, with techniques specific to form labeling. === Note: Sofia has an alternate proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamc/2007Feb/0021.html. Discussed in the 01 March 2007 telecon: Leave Open. Action: Ben and Gregg to reintroduce 4.1.3 per Jim's suggestion. http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/03/01-wai-wcag-minutes.html <previous proposal> {accept} @@ reintroduce SC 4.1.3 Refer to How to Meet 4.1.3 http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Meet_Success_Criterion_4.1.3 @@ Respond with: While the requirement to provide labels for user interface controls is covered by SC 1.3.1 and 4.1.2, we agree that this is is somewhat </previous proposal> Discussed in the 29 March 2007 telecon: Not accepted. Resolution: reintroduction of 4.1.3 fails ... add failure to 1.3.1: due to its association (action LGR) Resolution: delete 1.3.1 failure related to issue 654 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/03/29-wai-wcag-minutes.html DONE Delete 654 failures (in both 1.3.1 and 4.1.2): Failure of 1.3.1 and 4.1.2 due to omitting labels for form controls for item selection or text input (future link) [LC-654] DONE add failure: Failure of 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 due to the association of label and user interface controls not being programmatically determinable (Title only added to draft) Discussed in the 05 April 2007 telecon: resolution: accept proposals LC-587 and LC-654 on labels and forms as amended http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2007/04/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html {not-accept} DONE SEE ACTIONS FOR LC-654 Response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2007Jun/0071.html

Resolution: The WG feels this requirement is properly covered under 4.1.2 and did not wish to reinstate a SC that would be redundant with that. However, we agree that it's difficult for users to understand that form labeling is part of 4.1.2. We have added a failure and an advisory technique to SC 1.3.1 and 4.1.2: F68: Failure of 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 due to the association of label and user interface controls not being programmatically determinable Providing labels for text input or item selection form controls (future link)

(Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)