Edit comment LC-2800 for Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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Comment LC-2800: Comment Shortname:; Commenter: jonathanmetz@gmail.com; Message-id:; Section of the document concerned:

or; Refinement of the section concerned:; Status:
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Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Name: Jonathan Metz
Email: jonathanmetz@gmail.com
Affiliation: User
Document: TD
Item Number: PDF21
Part of Item: Examples
Comment Type: technical
Summary of Issue: Incorrect recommendation for dealing with List Elements in tagged PDF
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
The page suggests that using the list button on the ribbon as the "easiest way to ensure that lists are formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF". It doesn't actually, since Word throws the label element in with the <Lbody> in the tag tree whenever one exports a list from Word. The user always has to edit those elements in the tag tree later. It even goes so far as to show screenshots of what happens when you do that.

It provides the List Elements at the beginning of the technique, but fails to show the relevant usage for implementing them.

It provides no information about dealing with unordered lists or how such labels for them are optional.

It also does not clearly explain how a list is should appear properly structured.

Proposed Change:
1. Show how lists are properly structured.
2. Explain which tags are optional for which list type (ordered must be labeled, unordered is optional) and which tags are mandatory.
3. Show how to properly adjust tags in PDF to create said list first without the use of proprietary means (i.e. from Word/InDesign/etc).
4. Change text from " the easiest way to ensure that lists are formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF" to "easiest way to ensure that THE BASIS for list STRUCTURE is formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF."
5. Provide examples for how to fix the incorrect placement of the tags after exporting from Word (as the example writer); Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: This is an interesting one in that PDF/UA requires a more rigid structure than WCAG does. UA requires: L LI Lbl LBody LI Lbl LBody ... But as far as any user agent is concerned, the Lbl and LBody are optional.; Resolution: Thanks for the comment. We understand that at this time PDF/UA requires that lists are constructed with Lbl and LBody tags inside each LI tag, but we also understand that current technologies do not distinguish between LI tagged elements with this internal tag structure from those that do not. The changes that you propose are reasonable but given that there is no difference for the end user we will defer this work until there is a difference. If you are interested in contributing the changes you suggest then the working group will be able to review that submission to be included. It is also worth noting that techniques assume that users are familiar with the technology spec, and that the techniques contain a reference to the PDF spec to provide more details for people who need them.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)