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EOWG 17 February 2006 Minutes



George_Heake, Doyle_Saylor, Bingham, Jack, Judy, Shadi, Shawn, Justin_Thorp, Pasquale_Popolizio, Loughborough, Helle_Bjarno, Liam_McGee, Wayne
Alan, Tanguy, Roberto, Liam, Barry


Trends & Issues

Judy: We want to make sure if something is timely that people have an outlet for that but we want to keep that to e-mail. We will be putting certain trends on the agenda.

William: Sounds ok. If I want to raise an issue, send it to the list and raise it as an issue?

Judy: That'd be great
... Could encourage people on EO hmpg to suggest trends
... Anyone else from EO going to CSUN?

Shawn: Wayne will be there for part

William: F2F?

Judy: No

European Activities

<shawn> Shawn looking forward to doing hands-on workshop with help from Shadi, Helle, Wayne !

Judy: Comment Period for the CEN certification.
... 28th of Feb for WAB Cluster comment period for Unified Methodology
... WAI is not directly involved in either but we have liaisoned with them.

<shawn> zakim mute me

BAD Site Testing

Shadi: We will need some testing. Some people volunteered 2 weeks ago.
... You will all get an email.

Evaluation Tools List

Judy: We are hoping to not have to bring the interface back again.
... The search won't work.

Simple - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/simple

Shadi: We changed around the titles and the formatting to make it look more compact.

Harvey: Finish has two Ns

Helle: If we have lots of guidelines, this could get very big.

Shadi: We have a tool that also has guidelines. We limited it to laws that are recognized.

Helle: Is AccessiWeb recognized in France?

Judy: We may need to wordsmith how we refer to the guidelines

Jack: How did we choose these? ... Italy has one.

Shadi: Tool developers support these
... It was what is in the database.

Jack: The list is growing?

Shadi: It will keep growing.

Helle: The group maintaining this probably had to figure out what they were going to judge the standards by.

<scribe> ACTION: Check the wording on how the guidelines are listed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action01]

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to vote for strict listing criteria (as mentioned last discussion)

<scribe> ACTION: Make a policy for how the policies are listed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action02]

Judy: Section 508, Federal Procurement Regulation

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: Judy review & provide wording for other guidelines (& others as needed)

<judy> or US Sec 508, 1194.22

Helle: We should link to the standards.

Shadi: We could link to the policy page.

<shawn> Justin: "Performs these functions:" items: front-load

<shawn> ... e.g., put redundant words at end (evaluate)

William: Is there anywhere that says this stuff comes from tool developers?

Judy: It is in the disclaimer.

Shawn: I like it.

Judy: I think it is pretty explicit.

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: make "Performs these functions:" items easier to skim. perhaps reword a bit to put "stronger" words up front, eliminate redundant words, or bold focus words

William: I think there is some way to make this clearer.

Judy: Once we take out the wording national standard.

Helle: The disclaimer doesn't say what William asked for.

Judy: We say we can't verify but we don't say that it comes from vendors.
... Lets take a look at it.

William: There should be an only there.

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: consider linking other stds (in "Checks for these guidelines") to Policy page

Judy: Let's say somewhere..."the information comes from the vendors."
... Any reason why we can't?

Shadi: No, maybe even add to about the tools list.

Judy: We can do a WBS sign off on this.

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Overview page: consider adding more explicit in disclaimer &/or about something like ""the information comes from the vendors."

Judy: Lets look back at the Simple Search

Wayne: It captures the meaning of simple.

Shawn: I can hit enter and activate search?

Shadi: It has been noted.

William: How did we get the functions list?

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: consider making Enter key activate search button

Shadi: Several tool developers sent in what was available features.
... When we we did ask to evaluate some tool developers, we asked them to relook at this.
... There is the chance someone could have gotten dropped off

Judy: Anything else on Simple Search?
... Advanced Search

Advanced Search - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/advanced

Shadi: When the text size increases, it goes to one column.

Judy: Justin can you add changelog like shawn has been doing it in IRC?

Justin: Yes

Judy: Other reactions on advanced search?
... Does this make more sense than last time?

Pasquale: I think its very clear. I like the two columns layout. It is very effective.

Jack: I think it works really well.

Harvey: Is it obvious that you can check multiple things?

Shawn: Checkbox is universal for allowing multiple things.

Helle: If we don't check something, it will get the complete list.

Shadi: It is a filter. if you check something it will only give the ones that meet that criteria.

Shawn: If I check one thing, I only get what goes with that check.
... When you come in everything is checked.

Helle: I don't want to remove all the checked signs.

Harvey: Have it say check those you are interested.

Shawn: I was confused and I'm a pretty advanced user.

Helle: Its a basic search idea

Shadi: We can switch around the interaction.

Shawn: It is common to have an all button.

Judy: If you changed the presentation of it...?

Shawn: You could have an uncheck all button.

Judy: This aspect will need further discussion.
... Anything else?

Shadi: I do want to change the behavior to change it so that it is all unchecked.
... So if it is all unchecked...you get nothing

Judy: Describe one more time?

Shadi: Now...you have all the tools in the database available because nothing is checked. As you check criteria, you reduce what is given to you.
... I am proposing... you start off with no tools.
... As you check stuff, it will add things.

Shawn: We would have WCAG Checked.

Helle: We would want a check all box.

Wayne: I think there is a language understandability...does it mean all or anyone of.

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: swap underlying filter/search model.

Shadi: anything else under the advanced search?

Wayne: The way the phrase was debated on the phone...i couldn't tell
... I think OR.

Shawn: I agree.

<shawn> CHANGELOG, Eval Tools Search: consider providing [Check All] button

Helle: Under operating systems, there is web-based (remote). Will that cause confusion?

Shadi: Web based include all operating systems.

Helle: People would want to know what do you mean by this.

Wayne: CSS and PDF don't seem like web formats...what about file formats?

Shawn: What about Formats?

Shadi: the headings help navigation by headings.

William: Available Licenses is a left field thing...it doesn't seemed to be related.

Wayne: Maybe Licensing Options

Shawn: How much is this thing going to cost me?
... William can you send suggestions to the list.

William: yes

<shawn> ACTION, EOWG: send any Tool List suggestions to EOWG List, particularly wording for search categories


Combining Expertise


Judy: Purpose goals and objectives is all re-worded

William: The document should do this.

Judy: Yes

Wayne: Is that are changelog?

Judy: Yes

Shawn: I think 2 is kind of minor

Judy: 2 may need editing.

William: after result...than individualized efforts

Shawn: Say usually you need multiple people.

Judy: I compressed the audience a bit.

Group: Looks good

the draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/combining-expertise-20060216.html

Judy: This draft is significantly revised.
... In case anyone has had a chance to read it carefully.
... General reactions?

Wayne: I think it hits the focus really well...there are piece by piece things that need to be addressed.

Judy: Does the new document title work?

William: Alan had some comments.

Judy: Doesn't do a lot for me either.

Shawn: I like something other than review teams.

Judy: So good direction

Jack: Using Combined Expertise

Judy: Collaborating on...
... Collaborator is something sensitive in other countries.

Jack: Using Combined Expertise to Evaluate Web Accessibility

Wayne: I think we were trying to get across last week...we were talking about process and not just a team.

Judy: Asks justin for changelog

Justin: Yep

Judy: I am tempted to move into the document.
... I think there was the idea last week of combining in house and outer efforts.
... How do people feel the idea combining expertise works in the document now?

Group: It works.

Judy: The section headers have been reworded.
... I felt recommended expertise as laid out first...then the rest of the document can refer back to that.
... There is a short thing about opportunities for collaborative development. People wanted more fluid collaborative types.
... Do these headers and sequence work well?

William: You could make the document describes paragraph bullets. It would be easier to read.

CHANGELOG: Try to make the intro punchier
... Try to add some bullets

Judy: right subheaders and sequence


Judy: I took out a lot.
... Recommended expertise...I wanted to do with this section. i wanted to do more on why skills are being recommended
... Some seem evident...didn't have room to leave a certain level of justification. I tried to ad more context
... I broke out somethings

Wayne: I thought outlining expertise was good.
... Mixing with links made it harder.

Judy: What if bolded it?

Justin: Yes

Shawn: I agree with the concept of what Wayne is saying. It has to do with the close togetheredness
... I see the list of links.
... I conceptualize it as a list of links

Judy: We could turn that into a short bulleted list and then attach justification

Wayne: I think the categories of expertise read pretty well.
... When I ignored the links, the categories work pretty well.

Justin: Do it as an appendix.

Judy: Do it as an expanding

Shawn: I don't like the expanding.

Judy: I could be messy.

William: I like the expanding.

Judy: I don't think the accessibility of the implementations are pretty smooth for expanding

Shawn: We took expanding out in redesign.

Judy: Ill go with appendix.

CHANGELOG: Put links in the expertise categories into an appendix and anchor down to that.

Judy: If people can look at the two sections, they are highly revised.
... Look at the considerations...see if things work and are useful.
... My hope would be to bring a revised edition back next week.

<shawn> ACTION: EOWG review the-doc-formerly-known-as-Review-Teams & send comments to the list today, or early next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action03]

<pasquale> yes

Judy: Id like to get good feedback

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2006/02f2f.html#Agenda

Tech Plenary Agenda


Shawn: overview of the agenda
... Nothing is set in stone but this gives us something to discuss.
... the minutes from the discussion are up there

Helle: Is the ERT going to do anything with the database?
... I wasn't clear on the status of this tools list.

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2005/tools

Shadi: This is pretty currently available

<pasquale> bye all, have a good weekend ;-)

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Check the wording on how the guidelines are listed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: EOWG review the-doc-formerly-known-as-Review-Teams & send comments to the list today, or early next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Make a policy for how the policies are listed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/17-eo-minutes.html#action02