See also: IRC log
<shawn> hi, chuck. scribe schedule is not up to date. sorry. my fault. need a good minute taker today. are you up for it by chance?
<shadi> scribe: Chuck
<pasquale> hi all, good morning
<shawn> good morning pasquale
<carol> /invite rrsagent #eo
<carol> /invite zakim #eo
<shawn> scribe: carol
<shadi> scribe: carol
<scribe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005AprJun/0014.html
Helle: Workshop on standardization and EU project. Judy was there and maybe can discuss next week.
SH: Changes from testing - problems getting someone to help with CSS. Michael Lenz offered changes to design - but will wait until later to implement.
SH: Just content for this
... Changes to the Page Contents - previously was Support Materials, then Accessibility Resources - problems in u-testing. Based on last f2f and work on evaluating accessibility - change to Managing Accessibility. Move up a level Evaluating Accessibility
<Justin> like it
Like: Harvey, Pasquale
<alan> Looks good to me
<Helle> I like it
SH: Move About WAI to the first Level as well
Help with WAI Site: http://www.w3.org/WAI/about/site.html
SH: If come to site and want help is this the right page?
<Chuck> Yes, I think the page content is good, overall. And I pressed off instead of mute on my phone.
<pasquale> wai web site navigation
Pasquale: Change image from background to Header
SH: Would people be confused by header?
Helle: Yes I think so
JT: Top image
CL: picture at top of page
<Justin> sounds good
Pasquale and Helle like
Helle: Related pages - come to page on how to change text size and colors - why not label "text size and color"
SH: Change H2 to say text size and color
Sylvie: part on JAWS to navigate heading to heading - nav is different from version to version.
SH: how to balance between versions, languages, etc.
DS: say what version you got info from
SD: refer them to help to check.
HBJ: List all technologies?
SH: Disclaimer on other page - add here. Do want to give some specifics - balance between - if similar could be something generic
DS: new mac OS has built in screen reader
HBJ: What about countries where they use other screen readers? Germany?
SH: Will not put instructions for all screen readers
HBJ: but US now
SH: Instructions for most common without looking like only US?
Sylvie: Perhaps not so detailed,
remain general. Always new users of JAWS who do not know how to
do. Many don't implement header system. Helpful for those who
don't know how screenreaders work.
... refer to screenreader help for more information
SH: More generic and not list
... Test if 1 takes you to Heading in Home Page Reader
<Justin> yes...because it has a 30 day trial
SH: Anyone know if developers
... Pros of including HPR instructions?
Sylvie: Use both that and a real screen reader
<Helle> helle not Sylvie
CL: HPR 3.02 only moves using arrow keys not number keys
Helle: with 3.04 jump from heading to heading
SH: Graphical browsers do this?
SH: Add other assistive
... Not sure of benefit of adding that (Zoom Text). Clarification benefit vs. complication
<alan> The canadian guidelines prohibit them I think
<alan> The canadian guidelines prohibit them I think
SH: Info provided will only have level 1
CL: Access keys more trouble than they are worth
<alan> Canadian common look and feel guidelines
Cl: don't remember seeing explicitly
<alan> I agree we should avoid them
<alan> We could sniff for the browser and lead the user to the appropriate example
SH: Just Mac and Windows - most common.
CL: Add Netscape
<alan> [Just learnt how to see the page with no style in firefox :-)]
SH: Add Netscape, Firefox
<alan> Could we start the page with a pharase like "It's very easy to change the text size and colours in your browser"
<alan> this page tells you how...
<alan> It's not clear that this is an example for site designers as well as a help for users
<alan> The intention ought to be clear, but maybe it isn't.
<alan> I missed that part.
<alan> It's for two audiences. Later we could add a note for page designers saying they could copy the idea.
Alan: thouht it was to be educational - they could put page in site and encourage people to learn how to change text size and color
SH: Other's could include this in their site.
AC: Encourage people and inform them.
Regret: Sailesh Panchang
HBJ: In beginning say to increase text size - should just say change text size
DS: like having a number of examples - gives sense they can find this.
<alan> [Alan has to leave call]
SH: Decrease they could figure out and doesn't seem as important.
CL: Might not make leap to understand you can do other
Sh: I agree - point is to try to
tell people they can do this but realize that we're not able to
solve all problems.
... Put as Change, then increase or decrease in description, then say examples are increase
Agree; Helle, CL, Carol
HBJ: Get bit of horizontal scrolling - difficult to read page.
SH: could take out of table - but easier in table.
HB: Screen capture described in the page - menu item is that description
HBJ: Change ALT text to know which image is which?
SH: If can't see image would you want to see.
CS: If putting ALT might as well put extra word
CL: If looking with images turned off - decide to turn on based on ALT text.
SH: Add complexity?
HBJ: maybe none
CS: put browser title or blank ALT
SD: May want to enable to see what looks like in firefox or explorer - helpful to have different alt text.
SH: Can tell if looking at because of table.
SD: Don't always read in table mode - because linerizing well don't always tell which it is.
Bunch of "Ayes" to change.
SH: Make changes and send to EO list - won't go through in detail again. If comments send to list but not on agenda.
Shadi: No differentiation between
types of tools. Features are listed for each.
... How does it look - spacing visually - other ideas?
... Search functionality - two options. Sorting in combo box or Additional Search Options - lists all features in database.
HB: Very useful organization - impressed
Shadi: tried to stay with tools page - may be tweaks necessary
CL: At F2F in Boston saw original
work - discussion where to go. Looks great!
... checklist great way to refine searching.
Pasquale: Excellent work - very useful. It's impressive - numbers of items you find to put in database to search.
Lists could get extremly long
HBJ: type in search to find specific item - like Google
Shadi: Will look into this - but difficult.
HBJ: Checklist we end up with will be very big.
Shadi: Advanced users go through
... Each collapsible list so you can go through?
Sh: Can have a later list. Search
- may be 2nd revision - not hold up first release for.
... Move support, etc. - easier way to skim categories.
Shadi: Opinions on moving Support, etc. to H2 - Helle ok
SH: Implemented somewhere else and not fully successful. We should discuss later as low on time.
SH/HBJ: Each Category is explained in Selecting Tools Document
SH: How do we link to these
... H2 to get to it?
... Selecting Web Access Tools describes each of the sections below
Sorting option - clear enough? H2 as well?
JT: Took a few mintues before
figured out what to do with page.
... Towards bottom of page- smaller resolution would get lost.
... Delay between figuring out what to do.
SHadi: Maybe make H2 and change title
CS: if could move up for frequent users would be idea.
Helle: have to scroll
SH: Shorten introduction would probably be able to be done
Helle: Sort list instead of "Customize"
JT: Sort according to Tool Name didn't click with me.
HBJ: Just see list of tools - start with A prompt?
Shadi: only pops up if select - could click link to take to entire list as it was
If come to list with no prior sorting - paragraph not listed. All listed on page.
Helle: Then I could choose by vendor name?
Shadi: Yes - that's why the reset. When switch between pages it remembers previous options. Don't have to recheck or re-narrow search.
Helle Looks fine
JT: Refresh page when choose drop down?
<Chuck> Have to leave... cheers!
JT: Would be afraid of not
realizing that something has happened.
... Would expect a Search metaphor with info at top - not for it to resort on same page.
Shadi: Designed so you can bookmark page and come back to previous sort.
SH: What if list area visually different - stuff at top - generic background stuff. Make bottom look more active.
CS: Move content so that first result is up higher.
Shadi: additions to side bar?
SH: Look at Lexicon in coming week - will get more guidance.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.122 of Date: 2005/03/31 04:43:41 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Chuck Found Scribe: carol Found Scribe: carol Inferring ScribeNick: carol Scribes: Chuck, carol Default Present: Doyle_Saylor, +1.312.737.aaaa, Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shadi, Shawn, Carol, Chuck_Letourneau, Alan, Bingham, Pasquale, Sylvie_Duchateau Present: doyle shadi helle justin carol Shawn alan Chuck Pasquale Harvey Sylvie WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Andrew, Libby, Wayne, Roberto) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Wayne_Dick, Roberto_Castaldo, Libby_Cohen, Andrew_Arch Regrets: Wayne_Dick Roberto_Castaldo Libby_Cohen Andrew_Arch Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005JanMar/0194.html Got date from IRC log name: 15 Apr 2005 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/04/15-eo-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]