<NoahM> scribenick: masinter
<scribe> Scribe: Larry Masinter
Date: 21 May 2009
Roll call: raman is missing, ht may or may not be on irc
future regrets? Ashok: 11th of june
Larry out June 2 to 17th
next week HT is scribe, DanC is likely next after that
RESOLUTION: minutes for 7th are approved (no objections)
minutes for 14th?
RESOLUTION: minutes of 14th are approved
NoahM: Ian Jacobs reminded us that if we intend this for rec will require call for Patent Exclusion
... I am not a laywer, check with Ian/Dan for questions
... informally, any concern about publishing a call for exclusion?
... Problem: there is a dated link to a document which is 404, could someone please fix this
<DanC> umm... http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-hash-in-uri-20090415/ ...
<scribe> ACTION: noah to fix TAG page
<trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Fix TAG page [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2009-05-28].
NoahM: reminded of agenda item to flag actions as trivial: can be closed without discussion
<DanC> 269 is done. revision 1.27 date: 2009/05/21 17:15:14
<jar> me example of action annotated as trivial: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/267
<DanC> close action-269
<trackbot> ACTION-269 Fix TAG page closed
<trackbot> ACTION-204 -- Jonathan Rees to talk with Mark Miller about web app security and report back -- due 2009-05-12 -- OPEN
RESOLUTION: table to next week
<trackbot> ISSUE-24 -- Can a specification include rules for overriding HTTPcontent type parameters? -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-261 -- Larry Masinter to followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft -- due 2009-05-13 -- OPEN
<DanC> ACTION-261 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-261 Followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft due date now next week
<DanC> ACTION-261 due 26 May
<trackbot> ACTION-261 Followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft due date now 26 May
Larry only recently reviewed document
NoahM:We'll defer worrying about ACTION-257 until progress is made on ACTION-261.
NoahM: how much progress can we make?
... if we did get involved, would want Henry and Tim to comment
<DanC> (I couldn't find mail from TimBL on this... oh... guess I missed http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/05/14-minutes#item05 ...)
NoahM: there is a link to Rick's clarification of his request in today's agenda. His suggestion, if I understand it, is that the XML Schema spec is not appropriately layered. Thus, the W3C should hold up XSD 1.1 at CR to allow for such a layering to be invented. We need to decide what the TAG's role in this is wrt/ W3C process, and also whether any TAG members advocate our getting involved in this. It is in our charter that Tim has the option to ask us for advice at any point, should he wish to, but that's up to him to initiate.
Ashok: Rick has a very specific recommendation, to either start a working group or, within the working group, to produce a smaller, focused language
NoahM: I would like to know whether any TAG members feel we should undertake work on this.
<jar> LM: How does this issue hold up against potential-issue acceptance criteria?
<LM>: Think about our criteria for taking on TAG work, such as being asked by a working group, etc. ... There is another venue for this discussion. Not clear whom we would influence. I'm not specifically opposing his proposal.
<LM>: I'm remembering our discussion at the last F2F about criteria for undertaking TAG work. I don't think we should do this now, but should explain why.
jar: this is one of those issues where the questions cut across a lot of different WGs in W3C
... XSD does seem like it's worth a look, trying to follow rdf:text, XSD is in the center around OWL, SPARQL and ...., and they don't know where to go
nm: could you clarify how the issues you are relating with rdf:text vs. RickJ's specific proposal
jar: It's my instinct that there ought to be some interaction around this. When a single working group has trouble dealing with this.
<DanC> (the analogy seems to be that both rdf:text and XSD 1.1 comments involve/impact multiple WGs)
ashok: what jar is talking about is specific datatypes, and that we ought to be able to add datatypes. Rick's proposal is almost entirely about Schema Structures, and so is pretty much unrealted to rdf:text.
these things are both important but different
<DanC> (boy it takes a long time to not talk about something. ;-)
<LM>: Can we publish out criteria for work, and point to that as a reason?
<DanC> (are those criteria already written down, LMM?)
yes, point to it
I would like to see where we stand, and ask you to choose informally among two options for what to do right now.
Noting that nobody here today has been willing to say that the TAG should work on this, but that we are missing
two members who may be concerned, should we:
1) Decide now, as Larry suggested, that we have considered Rick's request, have no opinoin on the merits, but are not getting involved (will check with HT and Tim before committing)
- or -
2. Defer until next week
Ashok: in favor of 2
Larry: in favor of 1
DanC can support both
JK: goes for 2
<NoahM> JK: want more evidence that there's something we should work on
<DanC> (are you sure you want "more evidence"? I bet what you really want is _less_, John)
<DanC> (i.e. a pointer to one specific thing)
RESOLUTION: leave this for a week, see if any discussion, will come back briefly possibly just to decide whether to take on the issue
<NoahM> Raman would like to make Web Application State a topic. We should have specific deliverables for F2F.
<trackbot> ISSUE-60 -- Web Application State Management -- OPEN
<DanC> (where did raman make that suggestion? looking...)
NoahM: I went back and looked at the agenda & minutes to see what have we talked about since last F2F
... I did not survey the mailing list for topics, however.
<DanC> (I lean on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda for agenda building... looking at it now...)
<trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- What are good practices for designing extensible languages and for handling versioning? -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-259 -- Larry Masinter to kick off discussion of versioning principles to apply to HTML, engage jonathan and henry. -- due 2009-05-01 -- CLOSED
quote: "I'm thinking the above might serve as the initial content and outline of a finding around versioning and HTML."
(discussion about use of tracker, action, and issues, not minuted)
<NoahM> From minutes of last week: noah: Versioning discussion seems wrapped up for now...
<jar> danc, don't all open actions constitute implicit actions, on the "shepherd" (raiser) to drive them to completion?
<DanC> to some extent, yes, an open issue constitute and implicit action, but tracker is tuned for explicit actions (based on experience that that's the way people work)
<DanC> ("raman's request" -- I can't seem to find that; help?)
<scribe> ACTION: Larry to provide additional material for review
<trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Provide additional material for review [on Larry Masinter - due 2009-05-28].
<jar> lm: "additional" because some material has already been provided
<Zakim> jar, you wanted to volunteer
<trackbot> ACTION-270 -- Larry Masinter to provide additional material for review -- due 2009-05-28 -- OPEN
<DanC> (indeed, people react more to "do you like this?" than "what do you want?")
<scribe> ACTION: noah to work with jar to draft strawman agenda for F2F
<trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Work with jar to draft strawman agenda for F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2009-05-28].
(how do i change the due-date of an action?)
NoahM: few things that are big, high prority and judge meeting success, and then a bigger list of smaller items
<trackbot> ACTION-255 -- John Kemp to contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others -- due 2009-05-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
DanC doesn't want to mark it closed.
RESOLUTION: action-255 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-255 Contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others due date now next week
<jar> john, please edit the action to point to your email to Sam
the action should imply that the results of the contact are reported, in email or verbally at a meeting, what the response was, too
RESOLUTION: action-255 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-267 -- Jonathan Rees to [Trivial] Fix bad link in 4/2 minutes -- due 2009-05-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
RESOLUTION: closed (trivial)
<DanC> ACTION-23 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-23 track progress of #int bug 1974 in the XML Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG due date now next week
resolution wait for HT on action-23.
<trackbot> ACTION-231 -- Larry Masinter to draft replacement for \"how to use conneg\" stuff in HTTP spec -- due 2009-05-13 -- OPEN
<DanC> action-231 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-231 Draft replacement for \"how to use conneg\" stuff in HTTP spec due date now next week
RESOLUTION: Larry to report next week on status
<DanC> (apologies, but I don't know the date of the ftf; I neglected to put it on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#mtg )
<DanC> ACTION-201 due 1 aug 2009
<trackbot> ACTION-201 Report on status of AWWSW discussions due date now 1 aug 2009
RESOLUTION: change date to 1 aug
<DanC> action-116 due 1 Aug 2009
<trackbot> ACTION-116 Align the tabulator internal vocabulary with the vocabulary in the rules http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to either as needed. due date now 1 Aug 2009
DanC, tag f2f is June 23-26
RESOLUTION: due 1 aug
<trackbot> ACTION-254 -- Larry Masinter to send email to www-tag announcing issue-63 -- due 2009-05-13 -- OPEN
<DanC> ACTION-254 due next week
<trackbot> ACTION-254 Send email to www-tag announcing issue-63 due date now next week
<trackbot> ACTION-261 -- Larry Masinter to followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft -- due 2009-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule TAG to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not or Lisa D?) -- due 2009-05-15 -- OPEN
<DanC> close ACTION-257
<trackbot> ACTION-257 Schedule TAG to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not or Lisa D?) closed
<trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule TAG to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not or Lisa D?) -- due 2009-05-15 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to invite Mark Not or Lisa D to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing -- due 2009-05-15 -- OPEN
<DanC> " 75th IETF - Stockholm, Sweden
<DanC> (July 26-31, 2009) "
<DanC> -- http://www.ietf.org/
RESOLUTION: Noah to ask mnot and LisaD about schedule and availability, scheduling around IETF and vacation times
<DanC> (last communication from tlr was Wed, 6 May 2009 17:34:48 +0200 09