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Minutes of 26 July 2004 TAG teleconference
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1. Administrative
- Roll call. Present: Norm(chair), Dan (scribe), Chris, Paul, Roy.
Regrets: TimBL, Stuart, Ian
- Accept the minutes of the
19 July teleconf?
- Accept this agenda?
- Next meeting: 02 Aug. Regrets: NW. Possible regrets from IJ
[DanC]
- wondering about Roy
- review of 19July minutes postponed until they become available
- agenda seems OK
- next week: NW regrets. PC regrets.
- we don't expect SW is available 2 Aug
- RESOLVED: to cancel 2 Aug telcon. next
meeting: ftf 9-11 Aug
1.1 Meeting schedule
- Ottawa meeting update
- Action NW/PC 2004/06/14: Prepare ftf meeting agenda. See proposed agenda.
- [Norm]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/08/09-11-tag.html
- [DanC]
- --- Ottawa meeting update
- NW: toward having a good meeting in Basel, "Our goal for this
face-to-face is to leave with a technically complete second Last Call
working draft."
- ... aiming for publication [n]th of [month?] last call for about a
month.
- [Norm]
- one month
- [DanC]
- ChrisL: have we started negotiating with peer groups about LC
schedule?
- NW: no; haven't started
- PC notes I18N WG's recent inquiry about LC schedules
- ACTION NW: respond to I18N's inquiry
about LC schedules, noting TAG's evolving plans
- PC: we're hoping to be able to edit the webarch doc during the
meeting
- NW reviews daily schedule in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/08/09-11-tag.html
- NW: we're considering inviting DaveO to participate by phone...
- PC: I was in contact with DaveO; he's considering it among various
obligations
- ... monday might fit his schedule better
- NW: I'm open to monday if others are
- DC: likewise
- NW: I'll follow up.
- PC: I expect DaveO to reply to your earlier message
- PC asked about possibility of remote participation by IJ. DanC was
thinking we encouraged him to focus on other things. thanks Paul and NW
for preparing the agenda.
1.3 TAG Charter
Pending further updates from Team/AB
2. Technical
See also open
actions by owner and open
issues.
2.1 Action Item List
- Action NW 2004/07/12: Write XMLChunk-44
as a finding.
Action TBL/RF 2004/05/13: Write up a summary position to close
httpRange-14, text for document (need to reschedule httpRange-14 when TBL
available-single issue telcon? guest?)
- [DanC]
- Action NW: 2004/07/12: Write XMLChunk-44 as a finding. continues
Action TBL/RF: 2004/05/13 Write up a summary position to close
httpRange-14, text for document (need to reschedule httpRange-14 when
TBL available-single issue telcon? guest?). CONTINUES.
2.5 Web Architecture Document Last Call
2.5.1 Last Call Issues
Review open
issues starting with nottingham1.
Chair proposes a two-pass review: first to determine if any of these
issues have been overtaken by events. Then to determine which we need to
resolve.
If we get through the list, we’ll go back and begin discussing the
issues we selected as being on the critical path for a second Last Call
draft.
- [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to speak to XML Schema action
- [DanC]
- DanC: I asked the XML Schema WG for telcon time; haven't heard back
yet...
- PaulC: shall I call the chair?
- PaulC is excused to call the XML Schema WG chair for a few
minutes...
- ----- Web Architecture Document Last Call
- NW: let's continue sorting into OBE, LC-critical, open
- -- nottingham1:
Second bullet doesn't make sense 1.2.1. Orthogonal Specifications
- NW: doesn't look OBE
- ... relevant text is still there, though moved
- [Chris]
- I agree thatperformance is the reason in practice (parsing all
content to look for headers)
- [DanC]
- PaulC reached Ezell, who has now seen the request and intends to
answer presently, after consulting some XML Schema WG members.
- NW: I'd like to be available Thu, but I see that I'm not. so I still
prefer Fri.
- [Norm]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/issues.html?view=wg&closed=1&expert=1&editorial=1&clarification=1&stateAgreed=1&stateDeclined=1&stateSubsumed=1
- http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#orthogonal-specs
- perhaps
- [DanC]
- CL: suggest open. webarch makes a good point here.
- ... commentor says "it's not deployed because of performance";
perhaps so, but it's also a problem w.r.t. architecture
- NW: so... nottingham1 open?
- NW: so... nottingham1 open.
- [Roy]
- oops, was trying to say it was not a bad idea -- there is a lot more
history involved
- [DanC]
- roy, is that re nottingham1?
- [Roy]
- yes
- [Norm]
- You've fallen off the phone, will you be able to come back, Roy?
- [DanC]
- do you want the TAG to discuss nottingham1 further?
- [Roy]
- later
- [DanC]
- we can stick it in LC-critical for now if you like.
- i.e. schedule it for discussion later
- [Chris]
- we are saying that even if perfrmance was great, its still a
level-breaking architecture problem
- [Roy]
- yes
- [DanC]
- ok, nottingham1 is LC-critical
- -- klyne7
Use other schema than mailto as example
- ACTION NW: take klyne7 as editorial.
- -- klyne9:
Add stronger language on not permitting unregistered URI schemes
- CL: yeah... "is discouraged" isn't clear enough. "should not"
- ACTION NW: treat klyne9 as editorial
- PC: yeah, that text is still ther.
- s/ther/there/
- -- klyne12:
Proposal to drop paragraph on inconsistent frag ids
- http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#fragid
- http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#media-type-fragid
- NW: odd; greek letters are still in 3.3.1. CL: yes, see proposed text
from my action. NW: good!
- NW: we've re-written this; it's now in 3.3.2
- (CL, you're welcome to write him individually)
- NW: klyne9 is OBE.
- [Chris]
- yeah okay
- [DanC]
- NW: klyne12 is OBE. [rather than klyne9]
- -- klyne17:
Worth pointing out value of RDF descriptions depends on URI
persistence?
- CL: commentor not sure or something... NW: open, at least; we've
re-written some.
- NW: klyne17 open.
- -- klyne20:
Say something about relationship between Hypertext Web and Semantic
Web?
- NW: Ian 8Jun rev seems to deal with this. DC: yes, 4.6.
- NW: klyne20 OBE.
- -- klyne21:
Add statement about scalability concerns
- CL: fair point; hmm... I have an action
- NW: klyne21 is LC-critical, to review CL's action
- ACTION CL: Draft text to explain that
there's a tradeoff in this situation. continues from 14 May 2004
- -- klyne25
klyne25: Add reference to RFC3117, section 5.1?
- "On the Design of Application Protocols" http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3117.txt
- sec 5.1 Framing and Encoding
- DC: I'm interested to look at it
- NW: klyne25 LC-critical.
- ACTION DanC: report on study of RFC3117,
section 5.1
- PC: note BXXP is in the same design space as SOAP... CL: yes, there
are probably lots of things written about "Why we did X with XML".
- [Chris]
- The pain of recreating this social infrastructure
- far outweighs any benefits of devising a new representation. So,
if
- the "make" option is too expensive, is there something else we
can
- "buy" besides XML? Well, there's ASN.1/BER (just kidding).
- [DanC]
- -- manola17:
"Agent" that includes "people" source of confusion
- DC: I think this is OBE
- NW: manola17 is OBE.
- -- manola27:
Provide examples of mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage
- CL: yes, fair point... e.g. "we assume HTTP" in a format spec would
be bad.
- NW: manola27 is LC-critical
- ACTION CL: draft example ala manola27:
Provide examples of mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage
- -- i18nwg5:
Discussion of content-type header hint
- PC: looks like nottingham1
- DC/scribe: it's LC-critical.
- NW: i18nwg5 is LC-critical, like nottingham1
- -- i18nwg8
- PC: looks worth discussion. CL: yup
- RF: Ian's dealt with this, yes?
- PC: yes, but let's look again.
- NW: yes, let's look again
- NW: i18nwg8 is LC-critical
- -- i18nwg16:
Good practice on URI opacity impossible to follow for humans.
- [Norm]
- zakim, who's talking?
- [Zakim]
- Norm, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Norm
(9%), Roy (9%)
- [DanC]
- NW: we've changed to "SHOULD NOT"... OBE?
- DC: either way...
- NW: i18nwg16 is OBE
- -- i18nwg19:
text/foo+xml considered useless?
- CL notes recent Internet Draft relevant to this.
- ... deprecates this.
- [Chris]
- rfc3023 revision: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Jul/0016.html
- [DanC]
- DC: worth reflecting in webarch? NW: I think we do already. OBE.
- NW: i18nwg19 is OBE
- [Chris]
- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-00.txt
- Major differences from [RFC3023] are deprecation of text/xml and
- text/xml-external-parsed-entity, the addition of XPointer and XML
- Base as fragment identifiers and base URIs, respectively.
- [DanC]
- -- i18nwg20
- NW: hmm... same slug as 19...
- CL: I can see how readers could come to wrong conclusions...
- ACTION CL: propose text based on
i18nwg20
- NW: i18nwg20 is LC-critical
- -- rosenberg3:
Reuse appropriate URI schemes (and protocols)
- "On the use of HTTP as a Substrate" http://rfc.net/rfc3205.html
- NW: we have an issue on that...
- [Roy]
- /me I'll check the status of 3205 at next week's IETF
- [Chris]
- http://rfc.net/rfc3205.html
- Says its a BCP
- [DanC]
- DC: ah; IJ did this.
- NW: rosenberg3 is OBE
- [Chris]
- http://rfc.net/rfc3688.html
- [DanC]
- ACTION NW: incorporate reference to RFC
3688 per rosenberg
- NW: and perhaps bump httpSubstrate up in priority for ftf
discussion
- [Chris]
- If the registrant wishes to
- have a URI assigned, then a URN of the form
- urn:ietf:params:xml:<class>:<id>
- will be assigned where <class> is the type of the document
being
- registered (see below). <id> is a unique id generated by the
IANA
- based on any means the IANA deems necessary to maintain
uniqueness
- and persistence.
- [DanC]
- -- rosenberg5:
Proposed reference to IANA registry for namespaces and RFC 3688
- NW: rosenberg5 is LC-critical. [cf action above]
- --------- TRIAGE DONE! -------------
- -- schema12:
[3.6.1] [3.6.1] Good practice: Available representation. Too
preferential to dereferencable URIs
- DC: note telcon negotiations in progress.
- ADJOURN.
- [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()2:30PM has ended
- Attendees were Norm, DanC, Chris, [Microsoft], PaulCotton, Roy
- [DanC]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- Chair: NormW
- Scribe: DanC
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/07/26-tag.html
- Meeting: TAG
- Regrets: IJ, SW, TimBL
- RRSAgent, pointer?
- [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T20-15-05
- [RRSAgent]
- I see 8 open action items:
- ACTION: NW to respond to I18N's inquiry about LC schedules, noting
TAG's evolving plans [1]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-16-01
- ACTION: NW to take klyne7 as editorial. [2]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-35-25
- ACTION: NW to treat klyne9 as editorial [3]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-37-03
- ACTION: CL to Draft text to explain that there's a tradeoff in this
situation. continues from 14 May 2004 [4]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-45-02
- ACTION: DanC to report on study of RFC3117, section 5.1 [5]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-47-32
- ACTION: CL to draft example ala manola27: Provide examples of
mistaken attempts to restrict URI usage [6]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-50-25
- ACTION: CL to propose text based on i18nwg20 [7]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T19-58-58
- ACTION: NW to incorporate reference to RFC 3688 per rosenberg [8]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2004/07/26-tagmem-irc#T20-03-44
2.5.2 Reviews
See the 8 June
2004 Editor's Draft.
- Actions from 2004/06/14:
PC to review sections 1, 5, and 6 of 8 June draft.
CL to review section 4 of 8 June draft.
SW, NW to review entire 8 June draft. (SW Done[partial]
PDF,
HTML)
[Will add references to any other completed reviews submitted for
discussion]
Resources:
- Last Call
issues list (sorted by
section)
- Annotated
version of WebArch
- Archive of public-webarch-comment
- List of
actions by TAG participant
The TAG does not expect to discuss issues below this line.
3. Status report on these findings
See also TAG findings
4. Other action items
- Action DC 2003/11/15: Follow up on KeepPOSTRecords with Janet Daly on
how to raise awareness of this point (which is in CUAP).
- Action CL 2003/10/27: Draft XML mime type thingy with Murata-san
Norman Walsh for Stuart Williams and TimBL
Last modified: $Date: 2004/09/07 22:01:38 $