RE: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations

Karl,

In the FB example, I believe you're looking at the FB "Like" Widget which the group has managed in a separate conversation (impression would follow 3rd party rules, "meaningful" interaction would be granted 1st party protections).  I was attempting to cover the more specific OpenAuth use case in my example.

While I appreciate your personal view of data segregation via brands (Yahoo! Flickr vs. Yahoo! News, for example), I believe it will ultimately come down to each web site / 1st party to fairly and transparently express to users how broad its first party activities are so users can make the choice to engage with that brand or not.

On Google Maps, I see this as a very similar "Widget" example and would ask if you could easily discover if the data is collected by Google (you called it "Google" Maps, so that makes me think yes) and what your choices are.

As for Yahoo! Japan KK, I agree this is an interesting edge-case in the common branding environment.  In this case, the two organizations rarely share data and in the limited cases where we do we provide clear transparency to these situations in our privacy centers and in some cases, within the user experience itself.

- Shane

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Dubost [mailto:karld@opera.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 8:09 AM
To: Shane Wiley
Cc: <public-tracking@w3.org> (public-tracking@w3.org)
Subject: Re: Issue-17, Issue-51 First party obligations

Shane, Paddy,

Facebook joined I see. 
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=49311&public=1&order=org

Le 2 déc. 2011 à 07:06, Shane Wiley a écrit :
> You've called out the most essential element of the discussion below - party position is contextual.  In your use case, if you go to flickr.yahoo.com (1st party) and log-in with your Facebook (3rd party in this context) credentials, then only the log-in event would be tracked by Facebook and not your further activities on Flickr (unless you click on a "Facebook Like" button somewhere).

I don't think it is what Facebook is doing currently.
If I'm not wrong Facebook is collecting data about users 
who are going to sites having a FB button. Not judging if 
it's right or not, but just pointing out that this will 
have impact on Facebook business model. 

And it relates still to the issue that Roy has outlined.

What is a first part site?
As long we have not defined that, we will run into circles.

I have a tendency, *as a user*, to define a first party 
Web site as an individual online service. To be clearer 
and just as examples:

* Picasa, YouTube, Google Maps, Google search engines are 
  different sites.
* Flickr, Yahoo!, Yahoo! Mail, etc. are different sites.

I think Shane disagrees with me here.

Google Maps is another interesting example of user 
interactions. According to Shane model, if a user loads 
an hotel page with a Google Maps! as long as the user 
doesn't click on the map to resize it in the page, it's a 
third party. But as soon as the user resizes it it becomes
a first party interaction ? That doesn't make sense to me.

It's interesting with Yahoo! which has local franchises 
for the brand only, but not at all operated by Yahoo! USA
such as Yahoo! Japan  [1].


[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo_Japan

-- 
Karl Dubost - http://dev.opera.com/
Developer Relations & Tools, Opera Software

Received on Monday, 5 December 2011 16:59:26 UTC