Re: "Chrome"

Your separation between semantic chrome and the desktop visual chrome is 
genius.  Given that, I propose two phrases with definitions:

window chrome -- visual elements used by Desktop browsers or the OS 
window manager to surround the web page

browser-controlled presentation elements -- any user interface 
presentation controlled explicitly by the browser and not under direct 
web page control

--Brad

Hal Lockhart wrote:
> The key point I tried to make at the F2F was that the definitions that
> most of us would like to use for Chrome represent the way we wish
> browsers work or hope they will work in future. For example, a strict
> separation between what the application can control and what the browser
> controls seems desirable to most of us, but does not currently exist, as
> reported by many sources.
>
> The point of this comment is that first of all, we need to make this
> clear in our glossary, so as to avoid arguments about current
> violations. Also in evaluating potential definitions, we need to be
> aware of the present/future distinction. Looking at the thread below, I
> believe MEZ and Bob have proposed future definitions, whereas the two
> that Mike found are present definitions.
>
> I see the choice as being between defining Chrome in purely graphical
> terms (stuff around the edge of the screen) or semantically (stuff from
> browser not web site).
>
> Hal
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org
>>     
> [mailto:public-wsc-wg-request@w3.org]
>   
>> On Behalf Of Mike Beltzner
>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:13 AM
>> To: Bob Pinheiro
>> Cc: Mary Ellen Zurko; public-wsc-wg@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: "Chrome"
>>
>>
>> A couple of definitions I found ..:
>>
>> "The interface elements of a browser, or any other program, that
>> create the frame around the window that displays pages."
>>    (cite: http://www.chriscassell.net/classes/2001/winter/gdt150/
>> handouts/vocabulary.html)
>>
>> "The visible graphical interface features of an application are
>> sometimes referred to as "chrome". They include graphical elements
>> (widgets) that may be used to interact with the program. Common
>> widgets are: windows, buttons, menus, and scroll bars. Larger
>> widgets, such as windows, usually provide a frame or container for
>> the main presentation content such as a web page, email message or
>> drawing. Smaller ones usually act as a user-input tool."
>>    (cite:
>>     
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface_chrome#GUI_design)
>   
>> I think the salient detail is that chrome is what allows the user to
>> interact with the browser alone from interacting with the web
>> content. Bob's point about the display of chrome being restricted to
>> the browser is also good to keep in mind, and relevant for our
>>     
> purposes.
>   
>> cheers,
>> mike
>>
>> On 12-Feb-07, at 9:44 AM, Bob Pinheiro wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I thought the key distinction with regard to "chrome" is that there
>>> are certain areas of the browser window that are solely under the
>>> control of the browser, and not the website being displayed.  So
>>> anything displayed in the "chrome" can be assumed to be coming from
>>> the browser itself, and not the website.  However, if some browsers
>>> have areas where both the browser and the website can communicate
>>> information, that seems to muddy the issue.  Maybe such areas
>>> should have a different name, reserving "chrome" for those areas
>>> where only the browser can communicate to the user.
>>>
>>> At 08:16 AM 2/12/2007, Mary Ellen Zurko wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> During our f2f, the discussion about "chrome - what is it" came up
>>>> again. The discussion was part of going over "Poorly defined role
>>>> for chrome". It was a divergence at the time, so we decided to
>>>> take the discussion to the list. See:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2007/01/30-wsc-minutes.html
>>>> "what is chrome? diaglog boxes should be included"
>>>>
>>>> We'll need the definition of Chrome for the Glossary that Tim is
>>>> pulling together as well.
>>>>
>>>> What I mean to mean by Chrome are the parts of the window that
>>>> include information that the User agent/Browser is trying to
>>>> communicate to the user, vs the parts where the browser is
>>>> (expected to) faithfully represent what the web site/page is
>>>> trying to communicate to the user. Some areas in some browsers
>>>> currently contain both (for example, the title area including both
>>>> the HTML title and browser identity information).
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else have a better definition?
>>>>
>>>> I also remember people getting fixated on the word. If the word
>>>> itself is getting in the way of a concept we consider important,
>>>> then we can start using some other word which we can all agree on.
>>>> So this might instead be an exercise where we agree on the concept
>>>> first, then agree on the word we'll use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [ACTION-132 - Start discussion on mailing list to draw chrome
>>>> items out and get analysis completed [on Mary Ellen Zurko - due
>>>> 2007-02-13].]
>>>>
>>>>           Mez
>>>>
>>>> Mary Ellen Zurko, STSM, IBM Lotus CTO Office       (t/l 333-6389)
>>>> Lotus/WPLC Security Strategy and Patent Innovation Architect
>>>>         
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>> Bob Pinheiro
>>> FSTC Project Management
>>> Bob.Pinheiro@FSTC.org
>>> 1 908-654-1939
>>>       
>
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