Re: webtv-ISSUE-24 (igarashi): Local Link of web applications [HOME_NETWORK_TF]


On Jun 21, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Giuseppe Pascale wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:40:45 +0200, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com>  
> wrote:
> 
>> This is an interesting issue, but I would say that it is essential to  
>> distinguish connectivity from application protocols.
>> 
>> Establishing connectivity between applications is one thing. There are  
>> problems here of application discovery over the local network, security  
>> and connection establishment that will need to be addressed.
>> 
>> The actual protocol which is then used over this connection is a totally  
>> orthogonal concept. It's application-specific and those application  
>> protocols may be used in other contexts as well (for example, the smart  
>> phone quiz app might use the same quiz protocol to interact with the  
>> quiz app on the TV as it would use to interact with the broadcaster's  
>> servers, in the case that the TV does not support that quiz app).
>> 
>> I'm not saying that the group should not work on both - though I'd be  
>> skeptical about standardizing a universal quiz protocol - but they  
>> should certainly be handled separately.
>> 
> Agree and in fact I don't think the use cases is suggesting this (but Matt  
> can confirm).
> In general we seems to have 2 general use cases:
> 
> - communicate with services using existing and established protocols  
> (UPnP, Bonjour, etc)

These are protocols for establishing connectivity, rather than application protocols

> - enable communication between 2 applications with a "proprietary" protocol

Aren't the things in the first bullet the means that are used to achieve the aim of the second bullet ? Not sure how I understand these as 2 use-cases ?

...Mark

> 
> Both are of interest, The challenge here is we can identify a common  
> architecture to cover both.
> 
> On top of this some specific services/usecases may suggest the creation of  
> a more specific API/protocol well integrated in the web platform while  
> some other (like the quiz example) nwill probably never require an ad hoc  
> solution.
> 
> My proposed way forward is to start the first part (general framework)  
> leaving the discussion on add hoc protocols/APIs for specific services as  
> a second stage discussion.
> 
> /g
> 
> 
>> ...Mark
>> 
>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Matt Hammond wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, I have attempted to reformulate the 'quiz' use case as you  
>>> suggested:
>>> 
>>> """
>>> User Scenario: Interactive quiz
>>> 
>>> Alice and Bob operates the TV device to watch a quiz programme, from  
>>> live
>>> broadcast.
>>> 
>>> Alice and Bob also operate their smart phones to access a quiz  
>>> application.
>>> 
>>> The smart phone quiz application knows that the quiz programme is being
>>> watched on the TV and establishes communication with an interactive
>>> application on the TV that is active during the quiz programme.
>>> 
>>> The TV application overlays on-screen information informing Alice and  
>>> Bob
>>> that they are now taking part in the quiz.
>>> 
>>> As a question is asked in the quiz programme, the interactive TV
>>> application instructs  Alice and Bob's smart phone quiz applications to
>>> ask Alice and Bob the same questions. Alice and Bob enter answers to the
>>> questions using their smart phones, which are relayed back to the
>>> interactive TV application.
>>> 
>>> Between quiz rounds, Alice and Bob's scores are displayed on their smart
>>> phones and overlayed on screen by the TV interactive application. Scores
>>> are compared to those of the contestants featuring in the programme.
>>> """
>>> 
>>> Regarding need/justification: Using local-link communication to an
>>> interactive application provided as part of a broadcast stream provides  
>>> a
>>> way around scalability concerns if participation is substantial for a
>>> particularly popular programme.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> regards
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Matt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:12:35 +0100, Igarashi, Tatsuya
>>> <Tatsuya.Igarashi@jp.sony.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Matt and Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> I am happy to include more user scenarios in the use case description.
>>>> (I meant "use case" as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case )
>>>> 
>>>> Would you re-write it as a scenario from user perspective? This makes  
>>>> us
>>>> easy to understand.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> -***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***--***---***---***-
>>>> Tatsuya Igarashi (Tatsuya.Igarashi@jp.sony.com)
>>>> NS Development Dept. Technology Development Group
>>>> Sony Corporation
>>>> (Voice) +81-3-5435-3252 (Fax) +81-3-5435-3274
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Scott Wilson [mailto:scott.bradley.wilson@gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:06 PM
>>>>> To: Matt Hammond
>>>>> Cc: Web and TV Interest Group WG; Igarashi, Tatsuya
>>>>> Subject: Re: webtv-ISSUE-24 (igarashi): Local Link of web applications
>>>>> [HOME_NETWORK_TF]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 Jun 2011, at 14:29, Matt Hammond wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is an interesting use case and set of scenarios. I believe it
>>>>> will
>>>>> be important to enable communications between interactive
>>>>> services/applcations on a TV and other devices in a manner perhaps  
>>>>> along
>>>>> the lines you suggest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have an old-style use case that perhaps could be incorporated into
>>>>> your
>>>>> list of scenarios (with a little rewriting):
>>>>> 
>>>>> I quite like these old-style use-cases as they make a lot more sense
>>>>> when
>>>>> explaining what we are trying to achieve.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Quiz programmes are one example, as are competition shows of the  
>>>>> "-idol"
>>>>> variety - though today many of these make use of text
>>>>> messaging/telephony
>>>>> charges for their business model, and so to replace this functionality
>>>>> with
>>>>> web APIs would also require either access to micropayment  
>>>>> functionality,
>>>>> or a bridge from TV to telco services.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> Scenario: enabling interaction between companion content and
>>>>> television
>>>>> interactive services
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One or more companion devices can communicate with an interactive
>>>>> widget,
>>>>> application or service on the television. For example: a quiz  
>>>>> programme
>>>>> may feature an interactive service to allow users to play along. Users
>>>>> each
>>>>> use their own individual companion device to participate in the quiz,  
>>>>> in
>>>>> time with the programme as broadcast. As the programme progresses,
>>>>> questions
>>>>> are presented to the users on their companion device at the same time  
>>>>> as
>>>>> the contestant in the programme has to answer them. Scores are  
>>>>> compared
>>>>> and collated on the television screen at points throughout the quiz.
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There may be some overlap between this and issue-4 or issue-12;
>>>>> however
>>>>> I believe there is probably a difference, since the scenarios focus on
>>>>> applications spread across several devices working together, rather  
>>>>> than
>>>>> migration, or the wholesale remoting of a UI.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From our perspective at the BBC, it would be great if the scope is
>>>>> widened
>>>>> such that one of the applications may not necessarily be a web
>>>>> application
>>>>> but which still, in some way, exposes a service with which web
>>>>> applications
>>>>> could communicate. In the UK for example, interactive applications
>>>>> delivered as part of the TV broadcast on many of the platforms these
>>>>> will
>>>>> not be web based for the forseable future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think being able to support the migration of current "red button"
>>>>> interactive content to the open web and web applications/widgets is an
>>>>> excellent objective to work towards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 11:11:28 +0100, Igarashi, Tatsuya
>>>>> <Tatsuya.Igarashi@jp.sony.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry for the bad link.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here is the correct link to the use case description.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/Loc

>>>>> alLink#Use_Case:_Local_Link_of_Web_Applications
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> -***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***--***---***---***-
>>>>>>> Tatsuya Igarashi (Tatsuya.Igarashi@jp.sony.com)
>>>>>>> NS Development Dept. Technology Development Group
>>>>>>> Sony Corporation
>>>>>>> (Voice) +81-3-5435-3252 (Fax) +81-3-5435-3274
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Web and TV
>>>>> Interest
>>>>>>>> Group Issue Tracker
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: public-web-and-tv@w3.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: webtv-ISSUE-24 (igarashi): Local Link of web applications
>>>>>>>> [HOME_NETWORK_TF]
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> webtv-ISSUE-24 (igarashi): Local Link of web applications
>>>>>>>> [HOME_NETWORK_TF]
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/24

>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Raised by: Tatsuya Igarashi
>>>>>>>> On product: HOME_NETWORK_TF
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is a proposal about the use case "Local Link of web
>>>>> applications".
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> See: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/24

>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> | Matt Hammond
>>>>>> | Research Engineer, BBC R&D, Centre House, London
>>>>>> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/

>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> | Matt Hammond
>>> | Research Engineer, BBC R&D, Centre House, London
>>> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/

>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Giuseppe Pascale
> TV & Connected Devices
> Opera Software - Sweden
>

Received on Tuesday, 21 June 2011 16:11:45 UTC