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21:57:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-egov-irc 21:58:55 <Sarah> Guest: Tim Vollmer , Sarah Hinchcliff Pearson 21:58:56 <Sarah> Guest: Sarah Hinchcliff Pearson 21:58:55 <Sarah> Guest: Anne Fitzgerald 21:58:56 <bhandspicker> I'm driving but listening 21:58:57 <rachel> here 21:58:58 <gannon> here 21:58:59 <brand> here 21:59:00 <tlr> here 22:00:04 <tvol> hi i'm tvol, aka Timothy Vollmer from Creative Commons. I'm calling in from Mountain View, CA. 22:00:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see Sarah, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA2, gdick, annew, davemc, tvol, MacTed, VanjaO, trackbot, sandro 22:02:22 <tvol> we have slides if anyone wants to follow along. 22:02:44 <davemc> yes please (to slides 22:02:53 <PhilA2> zakim, code? 22:02:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:email@example.com), PhilA2 22:02:58 <bgryth> bgryth has joined #egov 22:03:35 <TopCoderPaul> TopCoderPaul has joined #egov 22:04:04 <annew> Can you send a link for the materials? 22:04:43 <Bhyland> Bhyland has joined #egov 22:05:41 <Jeanne_> eGov IG was the name of the Zakim telecon 22:05:43 <Brand> Brand has joined #egov 22:06:29 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #egov 22:06:36 <Bhyland> Speakers today are Dr. Anne Fitzgerald, University of Queensland, http://www.law.qut.edu.au/staff/facstaff/afitzgerald.jsp --Sarah Pearson and team, Creative Commons, http://creativecommons.org/ Agenda: --Licensing issues for open data and government services --Impacts of licensing choices on providers and consumers of data and services --Looking at specific uses of Creative Commons --Open questions 22:06:51 <egov> egov has joined #egov 22:07:20 <annew> Presentation is at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file 22:08:24 <Bhyland> Topic: general awareness raising on licensing structures and licenses that are being used for eGov content. 22:09:20 <Bhyland> @Jeanne do you have a scribe or want want for this meeting? 22:10:30 <Jeanne_> Bernadette, yes I do need a scribe. Would you be willing to do so? 22:10:56 <Bhyland> Jim and Sarah Pearson and the Creative Commons team are calling in from California 22:11:56 <bgryth> Is anyone else having a problem downloading the slide deck? 22:11:58 <Bhyland> @jeanne, I can as long as Net access holds while I'm a passenger in a car on I-95. 22:12:17 <davemc> I got it but it took two tries 22:13:16 <PhilA2> chair: Jeanne Holm 22:13:27 <PhilA2> scribe: Bhyland 22:13:46 <PhilA2> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2011Dec/0020.html 22:13:57 <Bhyland> Jeanne- can you put the link to the slides in IRC please 22:14:12 <PhilA2> Slides now http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file 22:15:04 <Jeanne_> Bgryth: It should be the first link on the page at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file then right click and "save as" will be a clean download 22:16:40 <Bhyland> s/Jim/Timothy Vollmer 22:16:59 <bgryth> @Jeanne thank worked perfectly. 22:17:45 <Bhyland> Tim described many different government uses of the CC-0 license, see the presentation associated with this talk. 22:18:01 <PhilA2> present+ Jeanne_Holm, Anne_Washington, Brian_Gryth, Dave_McAllister, Gannon_Dick, Rachel_Flagg 22:20:23 <Bhyland> US Gov't uses CC licenses and there is recent precedent for use of the CC-BY license by the US Dept of Labor and Dept of Education which is a notable new development. 22:21:32 <Bhyland> Bhyland has joined #egov 22:21:36 <Brand> Brand has left #egov 22:22:59 <Bhyland> Sarah speaking on the importance of publishing content with a license. First, legal certainty of use of content is important. 22:23:48 <Brand> Brand has joined #egov 22:24:02 <Bhyland> Additionally, Interoperability, notice, And metadata. Again, providing certainty for use of content. 22:24:43 <Brand> Brand has joined #egov 22:27:21 <Jeanne_> Sarah noted that CC alows use without endorsement, avoids misrepresentation, and protects the insignia or brand of the publisher 22:27:25 <Bhyland> Creative Commons licensing addresses issues to ensure credit, No endorsement, No misrepresentation. Insignias and brands are not affected by use in CC licensed content. 22:28:02 <tlr> tlr has joined #egov 22:28:26 <Bhyland> Tim: CC-0 offers content into the Public Domain, including database rights. It is the gold standard. 22:28:44 <Jeanne_> More on the CC Zero tool can be found at http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ 22:31:40 <Jeanne_> Jeanne is scribe 22:32:07 <Jeanne_> Sarah: there are other options as well, including the open data commons that applies only to databases. 22:32:22 <Jeanne_> CC applies to the databases as well as the content and the database structure. 22:32:48 <Jeanne_> Attribution content is a little difficult, and more flexibility is in the CC rather than the ODC 22:33:09 <PhilA2> The UK Gov Licence is at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/open-government-licence.htm 22:33:25 <Jeanne_> Sarah: the UK Open Government license is also used 22:33:31 <PhilA2> scribe: Jeanne_ 22:33:46 <Jeanne_> Sarah: Custom licenses can be used as well, but can provide interoperability issues for developers and consumers of the data 22:34:14 <Jeanne_> Sarah: CC has just launched the public discussion on version 4.0 22:34:16 <tvol> more info on 4.0 here: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0 22:34:36 <tvol> we invite your participation of course! 22:34:57 <Jeanne_> Sarah: Some governments have had issues with the current licenses looking at database rights, internationalization (drafting conventions), interoperability, and simplifying attribution 22:35:46 <Jeanne_> Sarah: These are the big topic areas considering for version 4.0 22:36:32 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2 22:36:52 <Bhyland> Bhyland has joined #egov 22:37:31 <PhilA2> Jeanne_: Govs at different levels around the world are publishing open data, thinking of members of the IG not present this eve, what should developing countries be looking for? 22:37:39 <PhilA2> Sarah: First thing is to work out who actually owns the rights 22:37:43 <Jeanne_> Jeanne_: What are some of the common issues that need to be resolved before a city or country can make decisions about licensing? 22:37:46 <PhilA2> ... sounds simple but it may not be 22:37:56 <PhilA2> ... privacy law also comes in 22:37:57 <Jeanne_> Sarah: Determine who owns the data, which can be complicated. 22:38:26 <Jeanne_> Thanks Phil! 22:38:27 <Bhyland> Sarah: RE: first step to attaching a license is to figure out WHO owns the data to begin with before determining which CC or open license to apply. 22:39:01 <Bhyland> Second are privacy related. Is there any personally identifiable I fo pp 22:39:06 <PhilA2> Present+ Brand_Niemann, Thomas_Roessler 22:39:16 <PhilA2> scribe: Bhyland 22:40:00 <Bhyland> s/I fo pp/information. 22:40:43 <Jeanne_> Are the any questions from the chat group here? 22:40:44 <Bhyland> Jeanne asked about associating a license with data.gov content. 22:41:14 <GuestPerson> GuestPerson has joined #egov 22:42:01 <Bhyland> Sarah: while USG is made available under the public domain, that is true in the US but not necessarily outside of the US. Thus, content may not have the impact desired. 22:42:16 <GuestPerson_> GuestPerson_ has joined #egov 22:42:17 <PhilA2> So far I have http://www.aupsi.org/presentations 22:42:21 <Bhyland> Www.aupsi.org 22:42:45 <Bhyland> www.aupsi.org/presentations 22:44:24 <Bhyland> Brian from Cclorado asked a question about database rights in the US 22:46:39 <Bhyland> AnneFitzgerald spoke on international treatment of database rights. There is no clear dividing line on what is protected and what is not. It is largely based on precedent. 22:47:07 <Bhyland> Brian McGrath, involved with NGO in State of Colorado. 22:47:35 <PhilA2> Present+ Brain McGrath 22:47:44 <Bhyland> Attorney, but not copyright expert... Looking to use a CC license if at all possible. 22:48:24 <PhilA2> Maybe this one for example http://www.aupsi.org/presentations/documents/Neale-Hooper-JamesCookUniversityCairns16November2011.pptx (it's the most recent) 22:50:48 <Bhyland> AnneF: pointed to a wealth of presentations that detail what she is speaking about, www.aupsi.org/presentations. There is a lot of AU precedent for geospatial content, Gov't datasets for natural disasters. 22:51:31 <davemc> I've got to drop at 3 PDT for a call on Accessibility. sorry for the conflict. 22:51:46 <Jeanne_> Thanks for joining us Dave! 22:51:56 <PhilA2> Present Anne_Fitzgerald 22:52:17 <Bhyland> AU geospatial community have been the pioneers of a simplified licensing model circa 2005. 22:52:38 <bgryth> @Bhyland it is Brian Gryth. 22:52:41 <davemc> davemc has left #egov 22:52:52 <PhilA2> rrsagent, make logs public 22:53:13 <Bhyland> Beginnings of the proposal was based on CC framework by 2006. By 2010, they had a completed framework. 22:53:56 <Bhyland> s/Brian McGrath/Brian Gryth 22:54:46 <Bhyland> CC-BY is being accepted by AU Gov't at local, state and national level. 22:56:12 <Bhyland> AU geospatial people, the data creators and custodians drove this. The Queensland Gov helped pioneer this work. 22:57:41 <Bhyland> AnneF: in 2011 the environmental science community has really pursued use of CC licenses and identify which one is right for their needs. 22:57:54 <Bhyland> Note - Australia is different... 22:58:31 <Bhyland> Different than many Gov't that don't assert a government copyright. 22:59:41 <Bhyland> AnneF: AU has a sophisticated understanding and wide uptake in the use of CC licenses. This has rea 23:00:14 <Bhyland> Really helped strengthen reuse and new (derivative?) works. 23:00:53 <PhilA2> Bhyland: Thanks to Sarah, Tim and Anne for the presentations. Can you tell us about some of the lessons learned about how you brought people up the learning curve 23:01:11 <PhilA2> ... was it through guidelines? Reaching the stewards of the data? 23:01:26 <PhilA2> ... I'm more concerned with data on the Web 23:01:50 <PhilA2> AnneF: That's a hard question. In Au we didn't have as clear cut a position as in the US for a policy framework 23:02:52 <PhilA2> ... that was a big issue. Getting people to see where the international direction of travel was heading 23:03:05 <tvol> anne mentioned OMB. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars_a130_a130trans4 23:03:13 <Bhyland> AnneF: in the US Gov, there is no copyright ascribed in data.... There is clear policy framework prescribed by the US OMB. In AU, this was not the case. The AU open Gov't day 23:03:30 <Bhyland> s/day/data advocates. 23:04:17 <Bhyland> Worked with Open Access data through the major agencies with publishable data, eg geospatial camp, 23:06:03 <Bhyland> In in AU, circa 2004-2005 there was a lot of person to person advocacy with key agencies, eg AU Bureau of Statistics and Geodata 23:06:48 <Bhyland> s/Geodata 23:07:42 <Bhyland> There needs to be senior and experienced people who can speak knowledgeably about copyright law with public sector employees. 23:08:28 <Bhyland> We have advantage of the uptake of CC-BY licenses by other governments around the world. 23:08:37 <PhilA2> q? 23:11:55 <PhilA2> Worth dropping this into the IRC http://creativecommons.org.au/ 23:12:01 <Bhyland> AnneF: explained nuances of CC-BY attribution. There are a bunch of fact sheets on the AU Creative Commons website. 23:16:33 <PhilA2> Lots of materials available at http://creativecommons.org.au/learn-more including videos, talks etc. 23:17:11 <PhilA2> Next meeting is 17 Jan 2012 23:17:22 <PhilA2> Jeanne_: invites agenda items 23:17:43 <PhilA2> ... hoping to talk about CKAN etc. 23:18:23 <PhilA2> Jeanne_: Thanks to Bernadette for scribing 23:18:26 <bgryth> bgryth has left #egov 23:18:32 <tvol> thanks everyone please feel to send other questions firstname.lastname@example.org 23:18:33 <PhilA2> ... and to everyone for sharing knowledge today # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000155