Chatlog 2010-05-13 Data Catalog Vocabulary

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<fadi> Guest: Kate Geyer
14:49:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
14:49:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-egov-irc
14:49:25 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
14:49:33 <sandro> rrsagent, make log public
14:49:41 <sandro> zakim, ping
14:52:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
14:52:31 <sandro> zakim, this will be geov
14:52:31 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, sandro
14:52:35 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
14:52:35 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago
14:53:14 <kate_geyer> kate_geyer has joined #egov
14:53:39 <sandro> 'morning, Kate.
14:53:47 <fadi> fadi has joined #egov
14:54:00 <kate_geyer> Good Morning Sandro!
14:54:05 <sandro> fadi, I did the rrsagent and zakim setup stuff already.
14:54:19 <fadi> snadro, thanks
14:54:36 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has now started
14:54:43 <Zakim> + +1.617.619.aaaa
14:58:05 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #egov
14:59:05 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:59:08 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
14:59:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.617.619.aaaa, Sandro
14:59:29 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is kate_geyer 
14:59:29 <Zakim> +kate_geyer; got it
15:00:20 <jonphipps> jonphipps has joined #egov
15:00:46 <Zakim> + +03539149aabb
15:01:03 <cygri> zakim, aabb is me
15:01:03 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:01:07 <Zakim> + +1.202.690.aacc
15:01:09 <cygri> zakim, fadi is with me
15:01:09 <Zakim> +fadi; got it
15:01:55 <george> george has joined #egov
15:01:56 <fadi> fadi has joined #egov
15:02:02 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:02:24 <cygri> zakim, who is here?
15:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc
15:02:25 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi
15:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see fadi, george, jonphipps, cygri, kate_geyer, Zakim, RRSAgent, martin, Daniel_Bennett, ww, edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:02:28 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:02:46 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc, Sandro
15:02:48 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi
15:03:05 <george> that's george sandro
15:03:15 <sandro> zakim, aacc is george 
15:03:15 <Zakim> +george; got it
15:03:27 <george> ok - sorry for still being a zakim noob
15:04:36 <Zakim> + +1.607.785.aadd
15:05:16 <sandro> zakim, aadd is jonphipps 
15:05:16 <Zakim> +jonphipps; got it
15:05:19 <Zakim> +??P8
15:06:08 <sandro> zakim, P8 is Vassilios
15:06:08 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
15:06:13 <sandro> zakim, ??P8 is Vassilios
15:06:13 <Zakim> +Vassilios; got it
15:06:34 <vassilios> vassilios has joined #egov
15:06:46 <vassilios> Hi Vassilios Peristeras 
15:06:53 <vassilios> Currently muted
15:07:35 <cygri> zakim, who is here?
15:07:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, george, Sandro, jonphipps (muted), Vassilios
15:07:37 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi
15:07:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see vassilios, fadi, george, jonphipps, cygri, kate_geyer, Zakim, RRSAgent, martin, Daniel_Bennett, ww, edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:08:27 <fadi> chair:cygri
15:08:32 <fadi> scribe:fadi
15:08:33 <Daniel_Bennett_> Daniel_Bennett_ has joined #egov
15:08:36 <cygri> agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/2010-05-13
15:08:52 <fadi> topic: Admin
15:09:03 <fadi> cygri: scribe for next meeting?
15:09:45 <fadi> kate_geyer: I can do it
15:09:50 <Zakim> +[CTIC]
15:10:01 <Zakim> + +1.202.449.aaee
15:10:08 <martin> zakim, CTI is martin
15:10:08 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named 'CTI'
15:10:10 <sandro> zakim, ctic is temporarily martin
15:10:10 <Zakim> +martin; got it
15:10:19 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:10:23 <martin> Zakim, [CT is martin
15:10:23 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named '[CT'
15:10:31 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (37%)
15:10:51 <martin> Zakim, [CTIC] is martin
15:10:51 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named '[CTIC]'
15:11:08 <Daniel_Bennett_> aaee is Daniel Bennet and on mute only
15:11:09 <fadi> cygri: we have an issue tracker now
15:11:16 <Daniel_Bennett_> Bennett
15:11:27 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page
15:11:43 <li> li has joined #egov
15:11:53 <fadi> sandro: the link to the issue tracker can be found on http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page
15:12:22 <fadi> sandro: the issue tracker is for all egov Ig so we should label dcat issues
15:12:25 <sandro> action-95?
15:12:25 <trackbot> ACTION-95 -- Sandro Hawke to move IG pages to mediawiki -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
15:12:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/track/actions/95
15:13:09 <fadi> sandro: follow the syntax direction as in http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/track/actions/95
15:13:54 <fadi> sandro: include issue id when exchanging related emails (use syntax like "ISSUE-nnnn")
15:14:02 <fadi> ... on the mailing list
15:14:04 <sandro> sandro: try to use syntax like "ISSUE-nnnn" in your e-mail so it gets indexed.
15:14:21 <sandro> topic: Name and Namespace
15:14:39 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat#
15:14:43 <fadi> cygri: what namespace to use for dcat?
15:15:02 <fadi> cygri: the current namespace is http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat#
15:15:36 <fadi> ... would it be possible to put it under W3C 
15:15:42 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat   
15:15:47 <fadi> cygri: is that possible sandro?
15:15:54 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2010/dcat
15:15:55 <fadi> sandro: yes
15:16:01 <fadi> ... we have three options
15:16:12 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/dcat
15:16:16 <fadi> ... http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat
15:16:31 <fadi> ... or http://www.w3.org/2010/dcat
15:16:41 <fadi> ... or http://www.w3.org/2010/05/dcat
15:16:44 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/data-catalog
15:16:55 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/gov-data-catalog
15:17:10 <fadi> cygri: would we be able to host files do redirect?
15:17:43 <fadi> sandro: not sure if we can delegate, but basically you can ask me to do so
15:18:29 <george> yes - w3 would be great
15:18:30 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:18:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, george, Sandro, jonphipps (muted), Vassilios, martin, +1.202.449.aaee
15:18:31 <fadi> cygri: opinions regarding the importance of namespace (deri.ie, w3c.org...)?
15:18:32 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi
15:18:51 <Daniel_Bennett_> aaee is Daniel Bennett
15:18:53 <jonphipps> I think it's important for legitimacy
15:18:59 <fadi> martin: prefer W3C namespace
15:19:04 <jonphipps> +1 for w3 space
15:20:04 <fadi> cygri: personally I prefer the ns one out of the three available options
15:20:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat as namespace for this vocabulary
15:21:03 <martin> +1 (shorter option)
15:21:07 <cygri> +1
15:21:09 <fadi> +1
15:21:10 <jonphipps> +1
15:21:15 <vassilios> +1
15:21:15 <sandro> PROPOSED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/(whatever) as namespace for this vocabulary
15:21:15 <kate_geyer> +1
15:21:24 <jonphipps> and I like the proposed ns
15:21:28 <fadi> cygri: we will discuss the dcat name next
15:21:33 <sandro> RESOLVED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/(whatever) as namespace for this vocabulary
15:21:34 <sandro> +1
15:22:18 <fadi> cygri: I will change the namespace of the vocabulary we have at deri
15:22:25 <fadi> ... but keep it there for now
15:23:26 <fadi> ... mainly for convenience while editing the schema
15:23:45 <fadi> ... as we already have a handy editor in place at vocab.deri.ie
15:24:15 <fadi> ... once things are more stable we will move it to the w3c.org
15:24:37 <fadi> sandro: I can easily keep copying what's on deri site to the w3c
15:24:46 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat
15:25:23 <fadi> cygri: I changed the namespace at http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat
15:25:31 <fadi> to the wec.org one
15:25:51 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat.rdf
15:25:59 <fadi> cygri: is the RDF version sufficient for now?
15:26:29 <cygri> dcat
15:26:33 <fadi> cygri: dcat name capitalization?
15:26:38 <cygri> "Data Catalog Vocabulary"
15:26:44 <fadi> ... we used to use the lowercase version
15:26:55 <fadi> ... but no strong reason for that
15:27:00 <fadi> ... any opinions?
15:27:04 <sandro> +1 dcat Data  Catalog Vocabulary    (but others might be fine too)
15:27:14 <george> +1 sandro
15:27:15 <martin> +1 dcat "Data Catalog Vocabulary"
15:27:24 <kate_geyer> +1 dcat "Data Catalog Vocabulary"
15:27:27 <jonphipps> +1 sandro
15:27:40 <fadi> cygri: dcat stands for "Data Catalog Vocabulary"
15:27:53 <sandro> PROPOSED: This is The dcat Data Catalog Vocabulary
15:28:01 <sandro> +1
15:28:05 <george> +1
15:28:06 <cygri> +1!
15:28:09 <martin> +1
15:28:10 <fadi> +1
15:28:11 <kate_geyer> +1
15:28:15 <jonphipps> +1
15:28:19 <sandro> RESOLVED:  This is The dcat Data Catalog Vocabulary
15:28:38 <fadi> topic: usecases and requirements
15:28:56 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
15:29:26 <fadi> cygri: on the wiki we have currently about 4 usecases and 10 requirements
15:30:13 <fadi> ... catalog federation has got some interest
15:30:23 <fadi> ... same for distributed publishing
15:30:35 <fadi> ... more than the other two
15:30:38 <sandro> q+
15:30:59 <fadi> ... which of these scenarios are more important?
15:31:51 <fadi> sandro: confused about the difference between federation and distributed publishing
15:32:02 <fadi> ... both are about aggregation
15:32:27 <fadi> ... if data.gov was not official, then both cases will be the same
15:33:03 <fadi> cygri: in federation the assumption is that the federated catalog is an aggregation of other catalogs
15:33:16 <fadi> ... while in UC4 the catalog is aggregation of datasets
15:34:12 <fadi> cygri: setting up a data catalog requires considerable effort
15:34:33 <fadi> ... distributed publishing makes it possible to publish the data just by listing it online
15:34:46 <fadi> ... without going the whole way of having a catalog
15:35:00 <fadi> sandro: we need to understand the difference better
15:35:22 <fadi> ... we might go on now and try to refine them later
15:35:52 <fadi> cygri: maybe renaming/expanding usecases can help clarifying difference
15:36:15 <fadi> sandro: not sure whether we need to change the names now
15:36:38 <fadi> cygri: we will come back to it later
15:37:40 <fadi> cygri: does anyone see that one of usecases is interested?
15:37:48 <fadi> kate_geyer: UC2
15:38:33 <fadi> ... mapping our catalog to dcat seams an implementation of UC2
15:38:55 <george> UC 1-2-3-4 are all good
15:39:03 <martin> I find interesting all of 4 UC, but specially UC1 and UC2
15:39:04 <fadi> ... we might have a combination of federation and distributing oublishing
15:40:06 <fadi> cygri: in reality it will always be some combination of aggregation of datasets from both catalogs and 
15:40:21 <fadi> ... other websites that publish individual datasets
15:40:45 <george> i'm actually in another meeting :)
15:41:02 <sandro> pondering the term "downstream reuse" 
15:41:05 <fadi> martin: especially UC1, UC2 are interesting for us
15:42:10 <fadi> cygri: UC3 looks the least interesting while UC4 need some more clarification
15:42:26 <fadi> cygri: any input regarding requirements?
15:43:11 <fadi> ... any missing one?
15:43:13 <sandro> UC4 == dataset maintainer publishes catalog record;   UC1 == Enabling Catalogs without action from dataset maintainers 
15:43:40 <martin> I would add "Standard queries on metadata" (UC1, UC2,UC3)
15:43:55 <fadi> martin: I would add "having standard queries"
15:44:28 <fadi> martin: like SPARQL, XQuery...
15:44:59 <fadi> cygri: you mean "it should be possible to query the data using SPARQL, XQuery..." ?
15:45:05 <fadi> martin: yes
15:45:18 <Daniel_Bennett_> then people could create a list of common queries for use and auditing purposes
15:45:25 <martin> I will update the wiki
15:45:49 <sandro> action: martin to add requirement about querying using standard mechanism
15:45:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - martin
15:46:18 <sandro> action: mlvarez to add requirement about querying using standard mechanism
15:46:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Add requirement about querying using standard mechanism [on Martín Álvarez - due 2010-05-20].
15:46:52 <sandro> action: Martín to (just testing)
15:46:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - (just testing) [on Martín Álvarez - due 2010-05-20].
15:47:01 <sandro> drop action-107
15:47:07 <sandro> action-107 closed
15:47:07 <trackbot> ACTION-107 (just testing) closed
15:47:12 <fadi> cygri: next steps. we need to hear more from other group members
15:47:39 <fadi> ... regarding requirement I got some private responses.
15:47:56 <fadi> ... how to proceed? contacting potential users of the schema?
15:48:39 <fadi> .... to make sure that things that catalog publishers and consumers care about are covered
15:49:11 <fadi> sandro: I think we can go on publishing working draft
15:49:23 <fadi> ... then ask for approval
15:50:53 <fadi> ... may be we send to the mailing list for more comments
15:51:05 <Daniel_Bennett_> ping?
15:51:16 <sandro> hi Daniel_Bennett_ 
15:51:27 <fadi> ... I suggest renumbering them, put UC1 next to UC4
15:51:31 <fadi> ... as they are related
15:51:47 <Daniel_Bennett_> hi sandro. just checking to see if i was still connected to IRC.
15:51:55 <fadi> cygri: I will try to reorder usecases and clarify them, especially UC1, UC4
15:51:58 <sandro> you are, Daniel_Bennett_  :)
15:52:51 <fadi> cygri: I think we give people more time to provide some feedback. If we need more feedback, I think we go for some other options
15:53:06 <fadi> ... maybe some of the group chairs can help
15:53:32 <fadi> sandro: it is fine to contact potential users directly
15:54:00 <fadi> cygri: I will email people from RPI and Sunlight Labs regarding usecases and requirements
15:54:14 <george> ckan?
15:54:18 <fadi> sandro: we need also to contact people from CKAN
15:54:58 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Vocabulary_Reference
15:55:09 <fadi> cygri: we have migrated some of the reference materials we have to
15:55:17 <fadi> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Vocabulary_Reference
15:55:41 <fadi> ... it is currently a work-in-progress and basically it is an initail list
15:55:57 <fadi> cygri: of classes and properties
15:56:20 <fadi> ... feel free to contribute to the wiki page 
15:57:02 <fadi> ... I hope we can start reviewing this in 2-3 weeks
15:57:14 <fadi> cygri: do we need to have a meeting next week?
15:57:38 <fadi> ... I would suggest we have a short one particularly to discuss usecases and requirements
15:58:30 <fadi> sandro: what about the discussion regarding vocabulary specific details?
15:58:37 <fadi> ... do we have to conduct it now?
15:59:20 <fadi> cygri: I do not think we can get ready to start discussing them  next meeting
15:59:54 <fadi> ... the initial vocabulary reference still needs a lot of work
16:00:12 <fadi> ... to fill in the missing details, then we can proceed to more specific details
16:00:59 <george> thanks cygri, sandro and fadi!
16:01:01 <fadi> cygri: we hopefully finish the usecases discussion next week then we proceed to the vocabulary design
16:01:03 <kate_geyer> thanks!
16:01:10 <Zakim> -kate_geyer
16:01:12 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:01:13 <vassilios> thanks and bye
16:01:17 <cygri> thanks fadi for scribing!
16:01:17 <Zakim> -george
16:01:17 <jonphipps> Thanks!
16:01:18 <Zakim> -martin
16:01:23 <Zakim> -cygri
16:01:24 <martin> martin has left #egov
16:01:24 <Zakim> -jonphipps
16:01:27 <Zakim> -Vassilios
16:01:32 <Zakim> - +1.202.449.aaee
16:01:33 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has ended
16:01:34 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.619.aaaa, Sandro, kate_geyer, +03539149aabb, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc, fadi, george, +1.607.785.aadd, jonphipps, Vassilios, +1.202.449.aaee, martin
16:02:33 <fadi> sandro, how to proceed for generating the minutes?
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