Chatlog 2010-05-13 Data Catalog Vocabulary
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<fadi> Guest: Kate Geyer 14:49:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov 14:49:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-egov-irc 14:49:25 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov 14:49:33 <sandro> rrsagent, make log public 14:49:41 <sandro> zakim, ping 14:52:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov 14:52:31 <sandro> zakim, this will be geov 14:52:31 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, sandro 14:52:35 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov 14:52:35 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago 14:53:14 <kate_geyer> kate_geyer has joined #egov 14:53:39 <sandro> 'morning, Kate. 14:53:47 <fadi> fadi has joined #egov 14:54:00 <kate_geyer> Good Morning Sandro! 14:54:05 <sandro> fadi, I did the rrsagent and zakim setup stuff already. 14:54:19 <fadi> snadro, thanks 14:54:36 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has now started 14:54:43 <Zakim> + +1.617.619.aaaa 14:58:05 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #egov 14:59:05 <Zakim> +Sandro 14:59:08 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:59:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.617.619.aaaa, Sandro 14:59:29 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is kate_geyer 14:59:29 <Zakim> +kate_geyer; got it 15:00:20 <jonphipps> jonphipps has joined #egov 15:00:46 <Zakim> + +03539149aabb 15:01:03 <cygri> zakim, aabb is me 15:01:03 <Zakim> +cygri; got it 15:01:07 <Zakim> + +1.202.690.aacc 15:01:09 <cygri> zakim, fadi is with me 15:01:09 <Zakim> +fadi; got it 15:01:55 <george> george has joined #egov 15:01:56 <fadi> fadi has joined #egov 15:02:02 <Zakim> -Sandro 15:02:24 <cygri> zakim, who is here? 15:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc 15:02:25 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi 15:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see fadi, george, jonphipps, cygri, kate_geyer, Zakim, RRSAgent, martin, Daniel_Bennett, ww, edsu, sandro, trackbot 15:02:28 <Zakim> +Sandro 15:02:46 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 15:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc, Sandro 15:02:48 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi 15:03:05 <george> that's george sandro 15:03:15 <sandro> zakim, aacc is george 15:03:15 <Zakim> +george; got it 15:03:27 <george> ok - sorry for still being a zakim noob 15:04:36 <Zakim> + +1.607.785.aadd 15:05:16 <sandro> zakim, aadd is jonphipps 15:05:16 <Zakim> +jonphipps; got it 15:05:19 <Zakim> +??P8 15:06:08 <sandro> zakim, P8 is Vassilios 15:06:08 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P8' 15:06:13 <sandro> zakim, ??P8 is Vassilios 15:06:13 <Zakim> +Vassilios; got it 15:06:34 <vassilios> vassilios has joined #egov 15:06:46 <vassilios> Hi Vassilios Peristeras 15:06:53 <vassilios> Currently muted 15:07:35 <cygri> zakim, who is here? 15:07:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, george, Sandro, jonphipps (muted), Vassilios 15:07:37 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi 15:07:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see vassilios, fadi, george, jonphipps, cygri, kate_geyer, Zakim, RRSAgent, martin, Daniel_Bennett, ww, edsu, sandro, trackbot 15:08:27 <fadi> chair:cygri 15:08:32 <fadi> scribe:fadi 15:08:33 <Daniel_Bennett_> Daniel_Bennett_ has joined #egov 15:08:36 <cygri> agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/2010-05-13 15:08:52 <fadi> topic: Admin 15:09:03 <fadi> cygri: scribe for next meeting? 15:09:45 <fadi> kate_geyer: I can do it 15:09:50 <Zakim> +[CTIC] 15:10:01 <Zakim> + +1.202.449.aaee 15:10:08 <martin> zakim, CTI is martin 15:10:08 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named 'CTI' 15:10:10 <sandro> zakim, ctic is temporarily martin 15:10:10 <Zakim> +martin; got it 15:10:19 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 15:10:23 <martin> Zakim, [CT is martin 15:10:23 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named '[CT' 15:10:31 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (37%) 15:10:51 <martin> Zakim, [CTIC] is martin 15:10:51 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named '[CTIC]' 15:11:08 <Daniel_Bennett_> aaee is Daniel Bennet and on mute only 15:11:09 <fadi> cygri: we have an issue tracker now 15:11:16 <Daniel_Bennett_> Bennett 15:11:27 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page 15:11:43 <li> li has joined #egov 15:11:53 <fadi> sandro: the link to the issue tracker can be found on http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page 15:12:22 <fadi> sandro: the issue tracker is for all egov Ig so we should label dcat issues 15:12:25 <sandro> action-95? 15:12:25 <trackbot> ACTION-95 -- Sandro Hawke to move IG pages to mediawiki -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN 15:12:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/track/actions/95 15:13:09 <fadi> sandro: follow the syntax direction as in http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/track/actions/95 15:13:54 <fadi> sandro: include issue id when exchanging related emails (use syntax like "ISSUE-nnnn") 15:14:02 <fadi> ... on the mailing list 15:14:04 <sandro> sandro: try to use syntax like "ISSUE-nnnn" in your e-mail so it gets indexed. 15:14:21 <sandro> topic: Name and Namespace 15:14:39 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat# 15:14:43 <fadi> cygri: what namespace to use for dcat? 15:15:02 <fadi> cygri: the current namespace is http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat# 15:15:36 <fadi> ... would it be possible to put it under W3C 15:15:42 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat 15:15:47 <fadi> cygri: is that possible sandro? 15:15:54 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2010/dcat 15:15:55 <fadi> sandro: yes 15:16:01 <fadi> ... we have three options 15:16:12 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/dcat 15:16:16 <fadi> ... http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat 15:16:31 <fadi> ... or http://www.w3.org/2010/dcat 15:16:41 <fadi> ... or http://www.w3.org/2010/05/dcat 15:16:44 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/data-catalog 15:16:55 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/ns/gov-data-catalog 15:17:10 <fadi> cygri: would we be able to host files do redirect? 15:17:43 <fadi> sandro: not sure if we can delegate, but basically you can ask me to do so 15:18:29 <george> yes - w3 would be great 15:18:30 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 15:18:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see kate_geyer, cygri, george, Sandro, jonphipps (muted), Vassilios, martin, +1.202.449.aaee 15:18:31 <fadi> cygri: opinions regarding the importance of namespace (deri.ie, w3c.org...)? 15:18:32 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, fadi 15:18:51 <Daniel_Bennett_> aaee is Daniel Bennett 15:18:53 <jonphipps> I think it's important for legitimacy 15:18:59 <fadi> martin: prefer W3C namespace 15:19:04 <jonphipps> +1 for w3 space 15:20:04 <fadi> cygri: personally I prefer the ns one out of the three available options 15:20:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat as namespace for this vocabulary 15:21:03 <martin> +1 (shorter option) 15:21:07 <cygri> +1 15:21:09 <fadi> +1 15:21:10 <jonphipps> +1 15:21:15 <vassilios> +1 15:21:15 <sandro> PROPOSED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/(whatever) as namespace for this vocabulary 15:21:15 <kate_geyer> +1 15:21:24 <jonphipps> and I like the proposed ns 15:21:28 <fadi> cygri: we will discuss the dcat name next 15:21:33 <sandro> RESOLVED: We'll use http://www.w3.org/ns/(whatever) as namespace for this vocabulary 15:21:34 <sandro> +1 15:22:18 <fadi> cygri: I will change the namespace of the vocabulary we have at deri 15:22:25 <fadi> ... but keep it there for now 15:23:26 <fadi> ... mainly for convenience while editing the schema 15:23:45 <fadi> ... as we already have a handy editor in place at vocab.deri.ie 15:24:15 <fadi> ... once things are more stable we will move it to the w3c.org 15:24:37 <fadi> sandro: I can easily keep copying what's on deri site to the w3c 15:24:46 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat 15:25:23 <fadi> cygri: I changed the namespace at http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat 15:25:31 <fadi> to the wec.org one 15:25:51 <cygri> http://vocab.deri.ie/dcat.rdf 15:25:59 <fadi> cygri: is the RDF version sufficient for now? 15:26:29 <cygri> dcat 15:26:33 <fadi> cygri: dcat name capitalization? 15:26:38 <cygri> "Data Catalog Vocabulary" 15:26:44 <fadi> ... we used to use the lowercase version 15:26:55 <fadi> ... but no strong reason for that 15:27:00 <fadi> ... any opinions? 15:27:04 <sandro> +1 dcat Data Catalog Vocabulary (but others might be fine too) 15:27:14 <george> +1 sandro 15:27:15 <martin> +1 dcat "Data Catalog Vocabulary" 15:27:24 <kate_geyer> +1 dcat "Data Catalog Vocabulary" 15:27:27 <jonphipps> +1 sandro 15:27:40 <fadi> cygri: dcat stands for "Data Catalog Vocabulary" 15:27:53 <sandro> PROPOSED: This is The dcat Data Catalog Vocabulary 15:28:01 <sandro> +1 15:28:05 <george> +1 15:28:06 <cygri> +1! 15:28:09 <martin> +1 15:28:10 <fadi> +1 15:28:11 <kate_geyer> +1 15:28:15 <jonphipps> +1 15:28:19 <sandro> RESOLVED: This is The dcat Data Catalog Vocabulary 15:28:38 <fadi> topic: usecases and requirements 15:28:56 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Use_Cases_and_Requirements 15:29:26 <fadi> cygri: on the wiki we have currently about 4 usecases and 10 requirements 15:30:13 <fadi> ... catalog federation has got some interest 15:30:23 <fadi> ... same for distributed publishing 15:30:35 <fadi> ... more than the other two 15:30:38 <sandro> q+ 15:30:59 <fadi> ... which of these scenarios are more important? 15:31:51 <fadi> sandro: confused about the difference between federation and distributed publishing 15:32:02 <fadi> ... both are about aggregation 15:32:27 <fadi> ... if data.gov was not official, then both cases will be the same 15:33:03 <fadi> cygri: in federation the assumption is that the federated catalog is an aggregation of other catalogs 15:33:16 <fadi> ... while in UC4 the catalog is aggregation of datasets 15:34:12 <fadi> cygri: setting up a data catalog requires considerable effort 15:34:33 <fadi> ... distributed publishing makes it possible to publish the data just by listing it online 15:34:46 <fadi> ... without going the whole way of having a catalog 15:35:00 <fadi> sandro: we need to understand the difference better 15:35:22 <fadi> ... we might go on now and try to refine them later 15:35:52 <fadi> cygri: maybe renaming/expanding usecases can help clarifying difference 15:36:15 <fadi> sandro: not sure whether we need to change the names now 15:36:38 <fadi> cygri: we will come back to it later 15:37:40 <fadi> cygri: does anyone see that one of usecases is interested? 15:37:48 <fadi> kate_geyer: UC2 15:38:33 <fadi> ... mapping our catalog to dcat seams an implementation of UC2 15:38:55 <george> UC 1-2-3-4 are all good 15:39:03 <martin> I find interesting all of 4 UC, but specially UC1 and UC2 15:39:04 <fadi> ... we might have a combination of federation and distributing oublishing 15:40:06 <fadi> cygri: in reality it will always be some combination of aggregation of datasets from both catalogs and 15:40:21 <fadi> ... other websites that publish individual datasets 15:40:45 <george> i'm actually in another meeting :) 15:41:02 <sandro> pondering the term "downstream reuse" 15:41:05 <fadi> martin: especially UC1, UC2 are interesting for us 15:42:10 <fadi> cygri: UC3 looks the least interesting while UC4 need some more clarification 15:42:26 <fadi> cygri: any input regarding requirements? 15:43:11 <fadi> ... any missing one? 15:43:13 <sandro> UC4 == dataset maintainer publishes catalog record; UC1 == Enabling Catalogs without action from dataset maintainers 15:43:40 <martin> I would add "Standard queries on metadata" (UC1, UC2,UC3) 15:43:55 <fadi> martin: I would add "having standard queries" 15:44:28 <fadi> martin: like SPARQL, XQuery... 15:44:59 <fadi> cygri: you mean "it should be possible to query the data using SPARQL, XQuery..." ? 15:45:05 <fadi> martin: yes 15:45:18 <Daniel_Bennett_> then people could create a list of common queries for use and auditing purposes 15:45:25 <martin> I will update the wiki 15:45:49 <sandro> action: martin to add requirement about querying using standard mechanism 15:45:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - martin 15:46:18 <sandro> action: mlvarez to add requirement about querying using standard mechanism 15:46:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Add requirement about querying using standard mechanism [on Martín Álvarez - due 2010-05-20]. 15:46:52 <sandro> action: Martín to (just testing) 15:46:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - (just testing) [on Martín Álvarez - due 2010-05-20]. 15:47:01 <sandro> drop action-107 15:47:07 <sandro> action-107 closed 15:47:07 <trackbot> ACTION-107 (just testing) closed 15:47:12 <fadi> cygri: next steps. we need to hear more from other group members 15:47:39 <fadi> ... regarding requirement I got some private responses. 15:47:56 <fadi> ... how to proceed? contacting potential users of the schema? 15:48:39 <fadi> .... to make sure that things that catalog publishers and consumers care about are covered 15:49:11 <fadi> sandro: I think we can go on publishing working draft 15:49:23 <fadi> ... then ask for approval 15:50:53 <fadi> ... may be we send to the mailing list for more comments 15:51:05 <Daniel_Bennett_> ping? 15:51:16 <sandro> hi Daniel_Bennett_ 15:51:27 <fadi> ... I suggest renumbering them, put UC1 next to UC4 15:51:31 <fadi> ... as they are related 15:51:47 <Daniel_Bennett_> hi sandro. just checking to see if i was still connected to IRC. 15:51:55 <fadi> cygri: I will try to reorder usecases and clarify them, especially UC1, UC4 15:51:58 <sandro> you are, Daniel_Bennett_ :) 15:52:51 <fadi> cygri: I think we give people more time to provide some feedback. If we need more feedback, I think we go for some other options 15:53:06 <fadi> ... maybe some of the group chairs can help 15:53:32 <fadi> sandro: it is fine to contact potential users directly 15:54:00 <fadi> cygri: I will email people from RPI and Sunlight Labs regarding usecases and requirements 15:54:14 <george> ckan? 15:54:18 <fadi> sandro: we need also to contact people from CKAN 15:54:58 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Vocabulary_Reference 15:55:09 <fadi> cygri: we have migrated some of the reference materials we have to 15:55:17 <fadi> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/Vocabulary_Reference 15:55:41 <fadi> ... it is currently a work-in-progress and basically it is an initail list 15:55:57 <fadi> cygri: of classes and properties 15:56:20 <fadi> ... feel free to contribute to the wiki page 15:57:02 <fadi> ... I hope we can start reviewing this in 2-3 weeks 15:57:14 <fadi> cygri: do we need to have a meeting next week? 15:57:38 <fadi> ... I would suggest we have a short one particularly to discuss usecases and requirements 15:58:30 <fadi> sandro: what about the discussion regarding vocabulary specific details? 15:58:37 <fadi> ... do we have to conduct it now? 15:59:20 <fadi> cygri: I do not think we can get ready to start discussing them next meeting 15:59:54 <fadi> ... the initial vocabulary reference still needs a lot of work 16:00:12 <fadi> ... to fill in the missing details, then we can proceed to more specific details 16:00:59 <george> thanks cygri, sandro and fadi! 16:01:01 <fadi> cygri: we hopefully finish the usecases discussion next week then we proceed to the vocabulary design 16:01:03 <kate_geyer> thanks! 16:01:10 <Zakim> -kate_geyer 16:01:12 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:01:13 <vassilios> thanks and bye 16:01:17 <cygri> thanks fadi for scribing! 16:01:17 <Zakim> -george 16:01:17 <jonphipps> Thanks! 16:01:18 <Zakim> -martin 16:01:23 <Zakim> -cygri 16:01:24 <martin> martin has left #egov 16:01:24 <Zakim> -jonphipps 16:01:27 <Zakim> -Vassilios 16:01:32 <Zakim> - +1.202.449.aaee 16:01:33 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has ended 16:01:34 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.619.aaaa, Sandro, kate_geyer, +03539149aabb, cygri, +1.202.690.aacc, fadi, george, +1.607.785.aadd, jonphipps, Vassilios, +1.202.449.aaee, martin 16:02:33 <fadi> sandro, how to proceed for generating the minutes? # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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