Chatlog 2010-04-15 Data Catalog Vocabulary

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<sandro> Guest: Paul (PaulZH) Hermans
<sandro> Guest: Peter Krantz
<sandro> Guest: Rufus Pollock
<sandro> Guest: Kate Geyer
<sandro> Guest: David James
<sandro> Guest: Libby Miller
<sandro> Guest: Luigi Montanez
<sandro> Chair: cygri
<sandro> Agenda:
<sandro> Present: brand, edsu, george, martin_spain, cygri, sandro, vassilios
# Can't do the real list with guests....!   <sandro> Present: brand, david_james, edsu, george, geyer, luigi, martin_spain, paul, krantz, cygri, rufus, sandro, vassilios
00:07:07 <mib_biqt5f> mib_biqt5f has joined #egov
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15:06:34 <RRSAgent> logging to
#15:06:52 <LuigiMontanez> Oh duh, I'm from Sunlight ;)
#15:06:58 <PeterKrantz> member:zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:07 <LuigiMontanez> The link to Richard's pdf seems to be down
#15:07:23 <sandro> LuigiMontanez, what's the name of the other person sharing the phone line with you?
#15:07:32 <cygri> luigi, let me look into that
#15:07:38 <LuigiMontanez> sandro: David James
15:07:42 <Zakim> + +0122369aacc
15:07:57 <Zakim> +Brand
15:07:58 <sandro> zakim, Sunlight has Luigi Montanez and David James
15:08:02 <Zakim> +Luigi, Montanez, David, James; got it
#15:08:06 <PeterKrantz> Hi Rufus
15:08:15 <sandro> zakim, aacc is Rufus
15:08:15 <Zakim> +Rufus; got it
#15:08:17 <edsu> heya Rufus!
15:08:37 <cygri> dcat slides, alternative location:
15:08:39 <sandro> zakim, Sunlight has Luigi_Montanez and  David_James
15:08:39 <Zakim> +Luigi_Montanez, David_James; got it
#15:08:47 <edsu> somebody is a fast typer :-)
15:09:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:09:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see PeterKrantz, cygri, Sunlight, martin_spain, Sandro, Paul, George, kate_geyer, edsu, vassilios, Rufus (muted), Brand
15:09:16 <Zakim> Sunlight has Luigi_Montanez, David_James
15:11:12 <sandro> scribe: Sandro
15:11:19 <sandro> topic: Admin
15:11:33 <sandro> cygri: We're here at this first meeting to talk about data catalog issues
15:12:19 <vassilios> vassilios has joined #egov
15:13:02 <david-james> david-james has joined #egov
15:13:45 <edsu> the wiki sandro mentioned:
15:13:54 <rufuspollock> rufuspollock has joined #egov
15:14:40 <cygri> initially we will use the general mailing list. put [dcat] in the subject line
15:14:58 <sandro> topic: Introductions -- Who is Here
15:16:10 <sandro> some information about people here:
15:16:23 <sandro> Richard Cyganiak from DERI
15:17:17 <PeterKrantz> Hi!
15:17:19 <sandro> ... we dont have a data catalog ourself, but we've done a survey and produced the dcat vocabylary as a starting point
15:17:26 <PeterKrantz> My mike seems to be broken
15:17:30 <PeterKrantz> I can hear you all
15:17:33 <sandro> Peter Krantz
15:17:39 <PeterKrantz> Ok I do it on IRC
15:17:46 <PeterKrantz> ?
15:17:55 <sandro> Luigi_Montanez, David_James from Sunlight
15:17:58 <edsu> PeterKrantz: please type your intro into IRC yes 
15:18:29 <sandro> david-james: we're working on a "national catalog" a catalog of catalogs.   we did a blog post a few weeks ago.   loose process; we'd like to collaborate.
15:18:32 <LuigiMontanez>
15:19:03 <sandro> LuigiMontanez: see link about to our work here, on govts in US.      ideas on good data catalogs.
15:19:32 <edsu> martin_spain: are you on mute?
15:19:34 <sandro> Martín Álvarez ( martin_spain from CTIC )
15:19:39 <sandro> zakim, who is muted?
15:19:39 <Zakim> I see no one muted
15:19:41 <martin_spain> can you hear me?
15:20:00 <martin_spain> i'll try to recall
15:20:16 <Zakim> -martin_spain
15:20:42 <Zakim> +martin_spain
15:21:42 <martin_spain>
15:21:53 <martin_spain>
15:22:18 <sandro> Peter Krantz from Sweden
15:22:23 <PeterKrantz> Ok, I run the website. It is based on an open source catalog where I implemented metadata using Dublin Core / FOAF / RDF (see example item here: It is carried over an Atom feed ( I am currently on parental leave from the Swedish eGovernment delegation.
15:23:43 <sandro> George Thomas, US Dept of Health and Human Services, work with us
15:23:59 <sandro> Kate Geyer, massachusetts govt
15:24:04 <kate_geyer> I work on the Massachusetts, US data datalog We have no metadata standards implemented here
15:25:10 <sandro> Ed Summers, US Library of Congress.   I work  on a repository dev team, managing data assets within LoC.    I'm also interested in encouraging making more harvestable.
15:25:50 <david-james> can you speak up?
15:25:59 <vassilios> Vassilios Peristeras
15:26:01 <sandro> Vassilios Peristeras, DERI,  I do eGovernment at DERI
15:26:18 <PeterKrantz> Yes
15:26:23 <david-james> Yes we can hear
15:26:48 <sandro> Rufus Pollock
15:27:08 <PeterKrantz> See
15:27:11 <sandro> being used for and other places 
15:27:42 <sandro> rufus: we've already done a lot on this, made trying to follow dcat spec
15:27:43 <PeterKrantz>
15:28:09 <sandro> rufus: big RDF triplestore with + ckan data.    (this is not really released yet.)
15:28:24 <PeterKrantz> A sample dataset item:
15:29:12 <sandro> Brand Niemann at US EPA 
15:29:55 <david-james> Did someone get the links that Brand mentioned?
15:30:04 <PaulZH> Paul Hermans
15:30:07 <sandro> Paul ....   working for Dutch Gov't as contractor, using Void, want to use dcat soon.
15:30:49 <sandro> cygri: Great group of people, very happy to have you all here.
15:31:05 <sandro> topic: Who Else Should Be Here?
15:32:15 <sandro> sandro: Rufus, are you representing folks here?
15:32:37 <sandro> rufus: Pretty much; we run the catalog back end.
15:33:00 <sandro> rufus: Will is currently traveling and so he can't be on the call right now.
15:33:30 <sandro> edsu: What about Australia?   Maybe the timezone problem is too great.
15:34:08 <sandro> peter: some folks in norway
15:35:06 <sandro> cygri: Anyone have contacts with Australia or NZ folks?
15:35:31 <george> @david-james and are Brand's sites related to this - i think these are the ones he mentioned today...
15:36:20 <libby> libby has joined #egov
# tracker doesn't know about Rufus yet
15:36:51 <sandro> ACTION: Rufus contact data-catalog folks in Australia to make sure they know about this group 
15:37:08 <edsu> libby: hey, are you on the call?
15:37:11 <sandro> topic: Preparing presentations of existing work
15:38:00 <sandro> cygri: Maybe we can get mailing list postings, with examples, and some brief presentations from folks who've done related work here?
15:38:10 <sandro> cygri: I can do dcat
15:38:25 <sandro> ...   ctic      Martin?
15:38:35 <sandro> martin_spain: Sure, I can do that.
15:39:40 <sandro> cygri: For Au?    
15:39:41 <sandro> q?
15:39:53 <sandro> ack david-james 
15:41:05 <libby> no sorry edsu, my irc client automatically joined
15:41:10 <libby> libby has left #egov
15:41:37 <sandro> sandro: this is not a "Working Group", we're trying a lighter-weight, less formal process here.
15:42:18 <sandro> cygri: Want to present next time, Rufus?
15:42:54 <sandro> rufus: "what do you call a dataset"?    scovo?    dc terms?    void dataset?     
15:43:23 <sandro> rufus: Many of the VOID datasets (packages) that get registered are not yet, and may never be in RDF.     VOID is oriented to RDF data sets.
15:43:41 <PeterKrantz> void dataset definition:
15:43:44 <sandro> rufus: We took mostly dublin core, with a few bits from scovo
15:43:58 <PeterKrantz> "A dataset is a collection of data, published and maintained by a single provider, available as RDF on the Web, where at least some of the resources in the dataset are identified by dereferencable URIs."
15:44:24 <sandro> rufus: As data catalogs get richer, this will change.   what ministry produced this?   what geographic regions does it cover?    it will go beyond DC
15:44:50 <sandro> rufus: In the we've kind of adopted dcat, which inherits from VOID, which is a bit of an issue. 
15:45:28 <sandro> rufus: dcat's great; most of the complex issues are stuff that dcat quite rightly punts on.      
15:46:02 <sandro> ... lots of different ways of describing geographic regions; which one do you ask people to add to their datasets when putting it into the system...?
15:46:32 <sandro> cygri: Yes, this relationship between dcat and void should probably not be there.
15:47:07 <sandro> cygri: To what extent should we review existing work like Dublin Core, VOID, SKOS, ...?
15:47:24 <george> +1
15:47:26 <PeterKrantz> +1
15:47:29 <kate_geyer> +1
15:47:29 <edsu> +1
15:47:30 <PaulZH> +1
15:47:34 <vassilios> +1
15:47:37 <martin_spain> +1
15:47:39 <sandro> sandro: +1
15:48:34 <sandro> cygri: I'll do dcat,  martic ctic, rufus on ckan, who can do the others...?
15:48:42 <edsu> q+ to suggest talking about relation to feed syndication
15:48:47 <sandro> cygri: I'll do void
15:48:58 <sandro> ack edsu 
15:48:58 <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to suggest talking about relation to feed syndication
15:49:30 <sandro> edsu: maybe Tom Baker from DC should be here?  He could come talk about it.
15:49:35 <sandro> edsu: I can talk about SKOS
15:50:01 <sandro> cygri: PeterKrantz what about yours?
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15:50:11 <sandro> PeterKrantz: Mine's pretty much DC
15:50:22 <PeterKrantz>
15:50:37 <sandro> PeterKrantz: Here's an example of how we're doing it.
15:51:46 <sandro> cygri: Licensing is also something to talk about.....
15:52:25 <sandro> cygri: I'll see if I can find a volunteer to present on the AU work.   
15:53:29 <martin_spain>
15:53:46 <sandro> martin_spain: Here's the catalog we developed
15:53:58 <sandro> martin_spain: We're using VOID
15:54:55 <martin_spain>
15:54:59 <sandro> cygri: You're doing the data as well as the catalog in RDF?
15:55:03 <sandro> martin_spain: yes
15:55:50 <edsu> e.g.
15:56:12 <sandro> cygri: When underlying data is available as RDF, then you can use VOID.
15:56:51 <edsu> q+ to suggest sunlight folks talk about their effort too
15:57:13 <sandro> cygri: Can we get summary, with relevant pointers, and an example, on the mailing list, and 3-5 minutes presentations at next meeting?
15:57:32 <edsu> +1
15:57:34 <PeterKrantz> +1
15:57:36 <martin_spain> +1
15:57:39 <PaulZH> +1
15:57:44 <sandro> sandro: +1
15:57:55 <sandro> ack edsu 
15:57:55 <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to suggest sunlight folks talk about their effort too
15:58:46 <sandro> edsu: Relationship between data catalogs and syndication feeds
15:58:55 <PeterKrantz> +1 (see Atom)
15:58:57 <sandro> ... so you can see what's changing
15:59:05 <george> +1 edsu
15:59:08 <LuigiMontanez> +1 edsu
15:59:23 <david-james> I agree with Ed about the importance of feeds
15:59:33 <edsu>
15:59:43 <PeterKrantz> I have experimented with RDF over Atom feeds for this.
16:00:24 <sandro> edsu: cygri you work with michael hausenbaus who is working on dataset-dynamics.   maybe they could come and talk about what they are trying to do, with an eye to the Note on dcat taking about how to layer this metadata into a feed.
16:01:00 <sandro> cygri: Sounds good.   I see people interested in this.
16:01:22 <sandro> cygri: Main thing for next meeting is to reach understanding on scope.
16:02:01 <sandro> ... i'm coming from having done dcat and shown it to egov ig, and we're trying to get it onto a broader base.     but of course this will be largely shaped by what everyone wants to do.
16:02:22 <sandro> ... synchronizing updates does seem to be important
16:02:35 <sandro> ... next meetings, let's see if we can reach consensus on deliverables and scope
16:02:58 <PeterKrantz> Aggregation of data sets will probably be a use case involving data set metadata.
16:03:38 <sandro> ... Sandro and I talk about it, and drafted an initial proposal, 
16:04:25 <sandro> rufus: when I spoke with Will, we were clear we wanted to collaborate, to have something concrete on the ground that everyone can contribute to, with, as a group thing.
16:04:35 <sandro> rufus: running code is one of the best ways to test ideas
16:04:41 <PeterKrantz> +1
16:04:43 <david-james> Are we moving toward wrapping up?
16:04:48 <sandro> cygri: Great to hear.
16:04:55 <sandro> david-james, yes
16:06:12 <sandro> sandro: same logistics for call in upcoming weeks.
16:06:37 <sandro> cygri: when we understand the scope, we can figure out better how many calls to run
16:06:47 <vassilios> could we move the meeting earlier fro the australian delegates?
16:06:55 <sandro> cygri: Exciting to be working with all of you.
16:07:07 <LuigiMontanez> thanks cygri and edsu
16:07:07 <Zakim> -Brand
16:07:10 <PeterKrantz> bye
16:07:12 <Zakim> -Sunlight
16:07:14 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:07:14 <david-james> Thanks! Looking forward to it
16:07:14 <Zakim> -martin_spain
16:07:15 <Zakim> -Rufus
16:07:16 <Zakim> -edsu
16:07:17 <edsu> cygri++
16:07:18 <martin_spain> bye
16:07:18 <Zakim> -kate_geyer
16:07:19 <Zakim> -PeterKrantz
16:07:21 <Zakim> -George
16:07:23 <Zakim> -Paul
16:07:25 <Zakim> -vassilios
16:07:25 <sandro> not really, vassilios -- the time is quite constriained in various ways.
16:07:34 <kate_geyer> kate_geyer has left #egov
16:07:40 <vassilios> ok, thanks
16:07:42 <Zakim> -cygri
16:07:43 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD TECH)10:00AM has ended
16:07:45 <Zakim> Attendees were cygri, +1.202.955.aaaa, martinSpain, Sandro, martin_spain, George, +1.617.619.aabb, Paul, edsu, PeterKrantz, vassilios, kate_geyer, +0122369aacc, Brand, Luigi,
16:07:52 <Zakim> ... Montanez, David, James, Rufus, Luigi_Montanez, David_James