Chatlog 2010-02-17

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<sandro> PRESENT: Brand_Niemann, Cory_Casanave, Daniel_Bennett, Ed_Summers, John_Sheridan, Rachel_Flagg, Sandro_Hawke, Chris_Beer, Ken_Fischer
<sandro> Chair: sandro
12:57:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:57:55 <RRSAgent> logging to
12:58:03 <sandro> rrsagent, make logs public
12:58:12 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
12:58:12 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
12:58:38 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
12:59:07 <sandro> Good morning, Daniel.   The bridge and IRC channel are all set up.
12:59:09 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM has now started
12:59:16 <Zakim> + +1.202.449.aaaa
12:59:45 <Daniel_Bennett> aaaa is Daniel Bennett
13:03:27 <Daniel_Bennett> wondering if 8am is that sweet spot of commuting time on East Coast US, sleepy time on West Coast US, and commute or busy time in Europe, and just all around inconvenient time. 
13:05:15 <sandro> Could be.    It was the best time on the survey, but not a lot of people answered the servey.
13:05:49 <sandro> And the meeting announcement might not have made the strongest Be There! statement.  :-)
13:06:01 <Zakim> + +1.202.236.aabb
13:06:06 <Daniel_Bennett> good point. need better marketing
13:06:28 <Daniel_Bennett> who is aabb?
13:06:50 <sandro> whoever is on the phone with you.....
13:06:58 <Daniel_Bennett> cant hear them
13:07:08 <sandro> Ah.   Strange.
13:07:47 <Daniel_Bennett> hi brand nieman
13:08:21 <Daniel_Bennett> brand is aabb
13:08:34 <sandro> zakim, aabb is brand
13:08:34 <Zakim> +brand; got it
13:10:02 <Daniel_Bennett> Chris are you there?
13:13:04 <Zakim> -brand
13:13:38 <Zakim> +brand
13:17:23 <brand> brand has joined #egov
13:19:35 <Daniel_Bennett> Agenda Introductions (5 min) Discussion of Scope and Interests of Participants(10 min) Discussion of Statement of Work for this Project (10) Identifying Resources and Project Management for this Project (10) Work on First Project Step (15 min)
13:19:50 <Daniel_Bennett> Agenda #1
13:20:00 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: hi
13:20:06 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel:hi
13:20:53 <Daniel_Bennett> agenda #2
13:27:09 <Daniel_Bennett> per an email adding license rights
13:27:30 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: suggest we use an information model - data model
13:28:13 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: info model includes topic and sub-topic and the data model includes data table and data elements
13:28:24 <Daniel_Bennett> agenda #2
13:28:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: for data also consider metadata
13:30:42 <brand>
13:31:43 <Daniel_Bennett> hello
13:34:21 <brand> test
13:42:22 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: use Statistical Abstract for metadata tagging
13:45:08 <edsu> edsu has joined #egov
13:45:50 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:45:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.202.449.aaaa, brand
13:47:19 <edsu> sandro: is Zakim all set up for scribing? i guess we are using CommonScribe eh?
13:47:29 <sandro> Yep.
13:48:17 <Chris> Hey all - I'm here. Not sure how long.
13:48:18 <sandro> for the scribe, you can treat it the same as scribe.perl.
13:48:43 <sandro> Chris, will you be able to call in during the meeting, or only be here on IRC?
13:48:57 <Chris> only IRC tonight
13:49:46 <Chris> (annoying yes, but if I have to call in, I'll keep it to the Web Tech call)
13:50:48 <Zakim> - +1.202.449.aaaa
13:50:50 <Zakim> -brand
13:50:50 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM has ended
13:50:52 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.449.aaaa, +1.202.236.aabb, brand
13:51:03 <Daniel_Bennett> finished the DataMgmt meeting
13:51:58 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
13:51:58 <Zakim> "egov" matches T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM, and T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, sandro
13:52:03 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov()
13:52:03 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
13:55:28 <edsu> brb
13:59:22 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
13:59:27 <Zakim> +[LC]
13:59:29 <Zakim> + +1.703.994.aaaa
13:59:36 <edsu> Zakim, LC is edsu
13:59:36 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
14:00:43 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:00:51 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aabb
14:00:52 <Cory> Cory has joined #egov
14:01:20 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Ken
14:01:20 <Zakim> +Ken; got it
14:01:26 <sandro> zakim, aabb is Rachel
14:01:26 <Zakim> +Rachel; got it
14:01:39 <Zakim> +Cory
14:02:06 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov IG
14:03:05 <sandro> scribe: edsu 
14:03:20 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #egov
14:05:13 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:05:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ken, edsu, Sandro, Rachel, Cory
14:05:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, Cory, edsu, Daniel_Bennett, RRSAgent, Zakim, Chris, mhausenblas, trackbot, sandro
14:07:15 <edsu> Topic: Administration
14:07:39 <johnlsheridan> johnlsheridan has joined #egov
14:07:40 <edsu> sandro: next meeting in two weeks, any scribe volunteers?
14:07:58 <edsu> Cory: i can do that one
14:08:00 <sandro> next scribe: Cory
14:08:24 <edsu> Topic: Action Item Review
14:08:39 <Zakim> +??P21
14:08:57 <sandro> zakim, ??P21 is John
14:08:57 <Zakim> +John; got it
14:09:07 <sandro> action-98?
14:09:07 <trackbot> ACTION-98 -- Cory Casanave to ask sandro re lobbying efforts (F2F, etc.) within W3C -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN
14:09:07 <trackbot>
14:10:08 <edsu> Cory: one of the suggestions was to have more face-to-face lobbying efforts, more of an action item for thursday
14:10:11 <sandro> action-99?
14:10:11 <trackbot> ACTION-99 -- Cory Casanave to propose a mission statement for our project -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN
14:10:11 <trackbot>
14:10:28 <edsu> sandro: i guess that's a thursday thing
14:10:47 <edsu> sandro: will make sure there's a way to mark actions for subgroups
14:10:59 <edsu> Topic: General Announcements, News
14:11:14 <edsu> Cory: been pretty quiet the last week
14:11:17 <johnlsheridan> q+
14:11:24 <sandro> ack johnlsheridan 
14:11:46 <edsu> johnlsheridan: i went to an event by the danish gov't on open data
14:12:33 <edsu> ... probably about 150 people there. There was a guy from ActionAmerica in the US. Audience was a mixture of officials and open data entrepeneurs ; interesting to see the agenda played through another nation state
14:13:09 <sandro> johnlsheridan: mixture of US-style innovation/apps, alongside offical long-term stuff
14:13:40 <edsu> ... lots of demonstrations, rapid innovation alongside longer-term strategic thinkng. Interesting to see the same dynamic as in the UK: web2.0 and reference data 
14:13:47 <sandro> johnlsheridan: In Denmark, same conversation I'm used to, with Web2.0 meets Official Reference/Mandate stuff.
14:14:01 <Li_Ding> Li_Ding has joined #egov
14:14:23 <edsu> johnlsheridan: we've got a linked data meetup in london on the 24th. we're going to be talking about work we've been doing at 
14:15:09 <sandro> johnlsheridan: "get real" : be practical in approaches, overcoming perceived complexity barriers.
14:15:13 <edsu> one thing i'm going to be saying is the 'get real' message, how to we overcome the perceived and actual complexity of moving to a linked data paradigm, and how the community can help us do that
14:15:28 <edsu> ... about 170 people have signed up
14:15:35 <edsu> johnlsheridan++
14:15:54 <edsu> Topic: Project Group Checkin
<sandro> Subtopic: LD Outreach
14:16:21 <edsu> Cory: we just had our initial get-together for project 1 & 2 joint meeting
14:16:56 <Cory>
14:17:01 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #egov
14:17:02 <Zakim> + +1.202.449.aacc
14:17:12 <Chris> How many on the call?
14:17:16 <edsu> ... a lot of the discussion was about setting our charter
14:17:17 <Daniel_Bennett> aacc is Daniel Bennett
14:17:30 <Cory>
14:17:32 <edsu> ... there is an outreach project page where we have a charter 
14:17:38 <joec> joec has joined #egov
14:17:56 <edsu> ... we're going to try to get some of the web-apps together
14:18:24 <edsu> ... outreach resonated with people, we were thinking we might organize things under that
14:18:38 <edsu> ... hope we can get the larger group working on the assets
14:18:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel
14:18:52 <sandro> zakim, aacc is Daniel_Bennett 
14:18:52 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett; got it
<sandro> Subtopic: LD Demo
14:19:12 <edsu> sandro: on the third project, george is travling, and corey is going to summarize
14:19:55 <edsu> Cory: we didn't talk as much about the focus of the demo, but we did have a great tour of the RPI open egov data project
14:19:58 <Cory>
14:20:11 <sandro> and
14:20:17 <Daniel_Bennett> oh no, the coppers are coming
14:20:19 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise?
14:20:29 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (25%), Cory (45%)
14:20:37 <johnlsheridan> It was me!
14:20:39 <johnlsheridan> Sorry
14:21:04 <edsu> Cory: they already have gov't demos in place, so we were talking about linking across these demos
14:21:26 <edsu> Cory: i encourage you to take a look at some of the demos on the tetherless world website ; the hope being we could integrate with that
14:21:44 <sandro> Chris: quick report?
14:21:47 <edsu> sandro: chris is on irc for the next group
<sandro> Subtopic: Web Tech
14:28:59 <Chris> Quick report from my end:
14:29:29 <Chris> We've got our project page set up. Been adding resources to both that page and Social Media as well.
14:29:55 <edsu> sandro: Brian sent his regrets btw, the plan is to put together a list of the top-10 best practices for social media
14:30:32 <Chris> Going to have some initial issues will handling call until I get VoIP properly set up. Apparently call planned for today (2 1/2 hours time) - ....(more)
<sandro> Subtopic: Data Management
14:22:09 <edsu> sandro: lets talk about data management group
14:22:28 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: i posted up the agenda for the first meeting
14:22:35 <edsu> ... on the wiki
14:23:17 <edsu> ... brand and joe were happy w/ it ; both are working on the metadata portion of it ; how to help governments include metadata for their documents ; that's something that brand will help w/ best practices
14:23:42 <edsu> ... 8 am is a tough time to get people on the west coast of the US
14:24:04 <edsu> ... does anyone on the call have problem with an 8AM EST time?
14:24:20 <edsu> sandro: might make sense to a doodle poll?
14:24:40 <edsu> ... hard to tell who is interested in these calls, only 5 responses to the poll about meeting times
14:24:54 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: maybe i can do a separate poll, and have them pick times they can attend
14:25:00 <edsu> sandro: yeah, that makes sense
14:25:37 <Chris> sorry - was looking up Skype :)
14:26:12 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: if you want to make a comment on your blog we can aggregate those, or you can contribute to the wiki
14:26:36 <edsu> ... i think some people have forgotten how to login, sandro can you send out something summarizing how people can use the wiki
14:26:54 <edsu> sandro: can you send me an email detailing what i need to say?
14:26:56 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: sure
14:27:17 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: i can put up the notes
14:27:26 <edsu> sandro: i already put up the notes from this morning
14:27:34 <Chris> q+
14:27:39 <sandro>
14:27:53 <edsu> sandro: i've been linking the notes from the meetings column
14:28:06 <edsu> ... if you want to update those that's fine
14:28:09 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: that's great
<sandro> Subtopic: Organizational Issues
14:30:33 <edsu> sandro: any other thoughts on the projects? they seem to be starting smaller, hopefully we'll have an atmosphere where people are welcome to join later when they something useful/interesting
14:31:07 <Chris> Could either delay till around early March - give SM and DM a chance to get rolling (that way can avoid doubling on overlapping work)
14:31:28 <Chris> or with a volunteer, could kick it off today - initial is only going to be as others - planning rough direction.
14:31:29 <edsu> sandro: we had almost 30 people indicate interest in the linkeddata, but not all of them showing up on the calls, trying to brainstorm about ideas to bring them in
14:31:52 <edsu> Cory: i had some trouble w/ invites -- i only saw one invite
14:31:55 <Chris> Will have a dedicated discussion forum set up on my personal site by end of week.
14:32:26 <edsu> sandro: people are being sort of ad hoc in the invitations 
14:32:30 <Chris> Hopefully planning most work on discussion forum, Telecons to vote/move on results from forum, wiki to publish output.
14:32:57 <Rachel> Can you (Sandro) send out ONE email w/a schedule of the meetings for the six groups?
14:33:13 <Rachel> Include instructions on how to participae?
14:33:48 <Rachel> No agendas necessary....just a reminder of who's meeting and when
14:34:01 <Rachel> so people can get the meetings on their calendars
14:34:04 <sandro> action: sandro send weekly meeting reminders
14:34:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Send weekly meeting reminders [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-02-24].
14:34:20 <edsu> sandro: maybe send out Monday morning?
14:34:45 <Chris> Would other projects like a discussion forum made for them as well btw? It would keep the wiki discussion pages a little cleaner
14:34:51 <edsu> Rachel: it sounds like not everybody knows what's happening when, some people expect different degrees of interest ... if you let people know who's meeting when they can drop in easier
14:35:29 <edsu> sandro: on monday i'll send out a list of projects that are meeting that week
14:35:38 <edsu> Rachel: could just send out once
14:35:42 <edsu> Cory: people need reminders
14:35:44 <sandro>
14:35:47 <Chris> +1 Cory
14:36:01 <edsu> Chris: kinda like the meetup reminders
14:36:06 <edsu> s/Chris/sandro/
14:36:21 <edsu> sandro: coordinator can reply or expand on it as necessary
14:36:26 <edsu> Rachel: thanks
14:36:50 <edsu> sandro: next is john w/ provenance
14:36:56 <sandro> topic: Provenance and eGov
14:37:16 <edsu> johnlsheridan: their last call on friday was abot provenance and gov't data
14:37:32 <edsu> ... i spoke about requirements we have in the uk ... for provenance and linked data
14:37:55 <edsu> ... the provenance community that's there is very energized by government data publishing
14:38:04 <Chris> @ John - any links to requirements in writing you can give??
14:38:08 <edsu> ... was some discussion about whether gov't has different requirements
14:38:41 <Chris> (or do you mean requirements as in not actual mandatory requirements)
14:38:41 <edsu> ... important for high quality statistics
14:39:08 <edsu> ... we talked about use cases, provenance vocabulary, open provenance model in gov't context
14:39:19 <Cory> Short agenda request: Any comments on the proposal to combine LDSTRAT & LDTECH projects?
14:39:25 <edsu> ... we looked at them, but found them a bit difficult to figure out how best to apply them
14:40:13 <edsu> ... a great conversation w/ the w3c provenance incubator group ... strong interest in the work we're doing
14:40:41 <edsu> ... i will be going back in a couple months to talk about our experience, need to think about how we bubble up that conversation here
14:41:05 <edsu> Cory: were they working with any particular solutions
14:41:32 <sandro> q?
14:41:33 <edsu> johnlsheridan: focus was on use cases ; some of the participants have done prior work (some for 10 years) 
14:41:50 <edsu> ... for us i think we need to think of gov't provenance use cases to feed into that group
14:42:37 <edsu> ... how important is it to reflect w/ gov't data the remit/function of an organization with the data ; from an archival perspective this is something that happens 
14:43:31 <edsu> ... as we are publishing linkeddata, and converting data we need to use the provenance vocabulary to point at the original data, and the algorithms that were used to transform
14:43:39 <edsu> ... this is something that the provenance vocabulary can do
14:44:19 <edsu> ... we're looking at the Open Provenance Model specifically
14:44:36 <edsu> sandro: how much of the group is thinking in terms of linked data versus some other format?
14:44:44 <Chris> @ John - please contact me over email during the week - may well have a use case for you - in fact I can definately say I have a use case for you to trial any approach you'd like
14:45:29 <edsu> johnlsheridan: hard to judge, i suspect the main difference between me and the rest of the group is that they were largely coming from a research perspective, and i was coming from a perspective of wanting to actually solve the problems
14:45:58 <edsu> ... people are more than willing to engage in a practical conversation 
14:46:12 <sandro> q?
14:46:23 <edsu> ... sometimes it can be very liberating for research oriented folks to find an actual real problem to work with
14:46:36 <edsu> sandro: are they running for a year?
14:46:55 <edsu> johnlsheridan: yes, use cases by august 
14:47:14 <edsu> ... they are very interested in gov't data, a big draw for them
14:47:35 <edsu> Topic: Combining Projects 1 and 2?
14:47:55 <edsu> Cory: i had a question about combining groups 1 and 2, what people thing
14:48:30 <edsu> sandro: there wasn't a lot of overlap in the survey results ; but if we only have 2 or 3 people showing up, then combining them is probably fine
14:49:04 <edsu> Cory: we'll discuss again tomorrow
14:49:21 <edsu> sandro: if you look at the poll, the comments might be helpful
14:49:40 <edsu> sandro: lets wrap it up, thanks for coming
14:49:46 <Zakim> -John
14:49:47 <Zakim> -Ken
14:49:50 <Zakim> -Rachel
14:49:51 <Chris> I think its a smart move Cory - makes sense.
14:49:52 <Zakim> -Cory
14:49:53 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:49:56 <Zakim> -edsu
14:49:57 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:49:59 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.703.994.aaaa, edsu, Sandro, +1.509.464.aabb, Ken, Rachel, Cory, John, +1.202.449.aacc, Daniel_Bennett
14:50:43 <edsu> edsu has left #egov
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