Chatlog 2010-02-05

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<sandro> Guest: Li Ding,, RPI
<sandro> Present: Cory_Casanave, Ed_Summers, George_Thomas, Michael_Hausenblas, Sandro_Hawke
13:48:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
13:48:23 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:48:29 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
13:48:29 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)9:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:48:54 <sandro> zakim, make log public
13:48:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make log public', sandro
13:49:08 <sandro> rrsagent, make log public
13:57:10 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)9:00AM has now started
13:57:16 <Zakim> + +1.518.495.aaaa
13:57:58 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #egov
13:58:38 <george> george has joined #egov
13:58:54 <Cory> Cory has joined #egov
13:58:56 <sandro> zakim is being slow to answer the phone....   :-(
13:59:23 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:59:33 <Zakim> +Cory
14:00:49 <sandro> +Li
14:02:17 <george> my blackberry is losing it's mind - i'll be on the call momentarily
14:03:00 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
14:03:37 <ed> ed has joined #egov
14:06:19 <Zakim> +??P14
14:06:23 <george> hey @ed, ru also on the call?
14:06:47 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
14:07:04 <mhausenblas> Zakim. who's here?
14:07:10 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
14:07:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.518.495.aaaa, Sandro, Cory, George_Thomas, ??P14, mhausenblas
14:07:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see edsu, Cory, george, mhausenblas, RRSAgent, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:07:36 <sandro> zakim, ??P14 is edsu
14:07:36 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
14:07:48 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Li_Ding
14:07:48 <Zakim> +Li_Ding; got it
14:07:57 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:07:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Li_Ding, Sandro, Cory, George_Thomas, edsu, mhausenblas
14:07:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see edsu, Cory, george, mhausenblas, RRSAgent, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:08:27 <edsu> zakim, mute me
14:08:27 <Zakim> edsu should now be muted
14:08:37 <edsu> sweet :-)
14:10:31 <sandro> an hour earlier is okay for me.
14:11:00 <mhausenblas> Michael: I'd appreciate it an hour earlier if this works for others
14:11:01 <edsu> i can do an hour earlier
14:11:42 <sandro> george: looks like an hour earlier is okay for everyone, but I'll check with e-mail.   (except Cory for the next few weeks.)
14:11:58 <sandro> scribe: sandro
14:12:06 <mhausenblas> Agenda:
14:12:06 <sandro> (scribing for now)
14:12:49 <sandro> george: I;m George Thomas, I work at US Dept of Health and Human Services.     I'm a marginal modeler and a worse coder, but I can help manage.
14:13:51 <mhausenblas> Chair: george 
14:13:54 <sandro> cory: I'm Cory Casanave from Model-Driven Solutions.  I've worked with George before.   We provide some open source technologies at   We mostly provide services to US Govt.    My interest is in finding new ways to benefit customers
14:14:40 <sandro> george: Thank Li for all the great work you at RPI have been doing, leveraging all the data.  It's a bright light in the community.
14:14:59 <sandro> li: (I'm in DC, travelling right now.)
14:15:41 <sandro> li: We're working on converting gov't data to linked data, then build demos to show value.    I'm technical lead for RPI project.    We're very interested in making things real.
14:16:18 <sandro> li: Before RPI, I was at UMBC, where I worked on Swoogle, then I went to Stanford, working with Deborah McGuinness.   Now Research Scientist at RPI.
14:16:22 <mhausenblas> Michael: postdoc at DERI, co-ordinator of
14:17:09 <sandro> mhausenblas: I'm a post doc at DERI in Ireland.  Coordinator of Gov't Linked Data [?].      
14:17:36 <sandro> s/Gov't Linked Data [?]/Linked Data Research Center/
14:17:47 <edsu> zakim, unmute me
14:17:47 <Zakim> edsu should no longer be muted
14:18:27 <sandro> edsu: Ed Summers, software developer at Library of Congress (in D.C.).    Mostly work on digital preservation activities.   Web development at LoC.
14:19:09 <edsu> zakim, mute me
14:19:09 <Zakim> edsu should now be muted
14:19:28 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
14:19:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Li_Ding, Sandro, Cory, George_Thomas, edsu (muted), mhausenblas
14:19:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see edsu, Cory, george, mhausenblas, RRSAgent, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:19:41 <sandro> sandro: Sandro Hawke, W3C, likes to code.  :-)        ... but usually does standards work.
14:20:11 <sandro> topic: Future Meetings
14:20:25 <sandro> Looks like we'll shift to 8AM E.T., probably
14:20:43 <sandro> george: I'll be offline for the next 3 weeks.    need co-coordinator?
14:21:54 <sandro> mhausenblas: I can either co-coordinate or do 9am for another week.
14:22:13 <sandro> george: I'll follow up with you two.
14:22:22 <sandro> topic: What do we want to demonstrate?
14:22:43 <sandro> george: edsu suggested link data between US and UK
14:22:47 <mhausenblas> q+
14:23:03 <sandro> george: I suggested Performance Management
14:23:37 <sandro> ... IT dashboard, shows IT investments that agencies are making.   Connect WHAT are they spending their money on with WHY are they doing it (goals).
14:23:54 <mhausenblas> ack me
14:23:54 <sandro> ack mhausenblas 
14:24:12 <mhausenblas>
14:24:53 <sandro> mhausenblas: faceted browser of, a bit like Li's at RPI
14:25:00 <mhausenblas>
14:25:42 <sandro> ... charts from RDF
14:25:46 <mhausenblas>
14:26:27 <sandro> ... statistics;   use of multiple independent vocabs
14:26:46 <sandro> george: interesting stuff....
14:27:16 <sandro> george: You did some changeset-oriented feed stuff....
14:27:23 <mhausenblas>
14:28:22 <sandro> mhausenblas: recent work in progress, hoping to scale up to wikipedia or larger
14:28:41 <george>
14:28:50 <sandro> li: RPI website
14:28:50 <mhausenblas> s/to wikipedia/to DBpedia
14:29:07 <edsu> -> RPI data-gov wiki
14:29:08 <Cory> Joshua
14:29:56 <sandro> li: not enough details yet....
14:30:19 <george> i'll try to capture goal/objective statements of team members l8r
14:30:23 <sandro> li: we're semweb oriented, but want to embrace non-semweb web community.    demos should serve for education.
14:30:41 <george> looks like we have a lot of tool/mechanics capabilities offered by deri/rpi
14:30:59 <sandro> li: at NIH looking at Tobacco data
14:31:32 <mhausenblas> Michael: agree, it shouldn't be Semantic Web-demos, but demos with a certain wow/utility effect
14:32:21 <mhausenblas> Michael: my motto is, where RDF-based stuff is appropriate, I use it, otherwise not (best tool for the task, see for example Atom usage in the dady demo ;)
14:32:35 <sandro> george:, initially focussing on health data, we'll talk about that more in a different forum....
14:33:32 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:33:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
14:33:37 <sandro> george: we have lots of great tools and techniques, but...  which data to use....?
14:33:41 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, makes log public
14:33:41 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makes log public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:33:45 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, makes logs public
14:33:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makes logs public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:33:51 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, make logs public
14:34:37 <sandro> sandro: I wonder about killer-app-demo vs lots of little stuff, cf RPI and DERI
14:35:02 <mhausenblas> q+
14:35:06 <mhausenblas> ack me
14:35:12 <sandro> george: maybe we can leverage all the little demos into one killer app
14:35:44 <sandro> mhausenblas: let's combine....      eg an agency wants to publish/use some data, we can provide demos focussed around one story.
14:36:01 <sandro> george: yeah, one story....
14:37:23 <sandro> cory: cost-justification...      with a small ontology for that, then build some UI for analysis, but allow any org to publish, and the we suck them up.  Prepopulate but allowed data from elsewhere.
14:37:37 <sandro> ... some cost-justification data is out there.
14:38:14 <mhausenblas> q+ to agree re cost-justification, but ...
14:38:20 <sandro> george: Yeah, let folks show off their cooler stuff, applied to this data.
14:38:30 <sandro> ack mhausenblas 
14:38:30 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to agree re cost-justification, but ...
14:38:57 <sandro> mhausenblas: cost-justification is good; let's start with Real Data instead of with schema/ontology.
14:39:38 <edsu> mhausenblas++ # for data-driven
14:39:43 <sandro> ed: I agree.  THere is lots of real data from US Govt.
14:40:04 <sandro> ed: but it's not necessarily connected
14:40:26 <Cory> So I am thinking of 3 "parts" for cost justification: Raw data (from many sources), A registry of these connected to a vocabulary and any number of cool User interfaces.
14:40:58 <sandro> oops, that's george not ed.
14:41:22 <edsu> q+ to ask about catalog info
14:42:07 <mhausenblas> q+ to propose a road ahead by sketching the story in the Wiki
14:42:14 <mhausenblas> q?
14:42:50 <edsu> zakim, unmute me
14:42:50 <Zakim> edsu should no longer be muted
14:42:52 <edsu> ack
14:42:54 <sandro> sandro: Let's make a wiki page, and add some cost-justificaton data sources
14:43:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ack edsu 
14:43:00 <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask about catalog info
14:43:01 <Zakim> I see mhausenblas on the speaker queue
14:45:17 <sandro> edsu: use RDFa
14:45:24 <edsu> zakim, mute me
14:45:24 <Zakim> edsu should now be muted
14:45:34 <edsu> mhausenblas: :-)
14:46:22 <sandro> li: we've used RDFa a little.    our demo page has a small search capabaility using that.
14:46:41 <sandro> george: action item to look at what everyone has done....
14:47:25 <mhausenblas> q?
14:47:46 <mhausenblas>
14:48:27 <george>
14:48:33 <george> is already started - 
14:48:34 <sandro> sandro: annotated biblio of sites we should look at.
14:48:37 <mhausenblas> ack me
14:48:37 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to propose a road ahead by sketching the story in the Wiki
14:48:55 <george> yes - use the wiki to develop the scenario
14:49:07 <sandro> mhausenblas: RDFa important and useful and all, but let's keep to sketching story.
14:49:24 <sandro> q?
14:50:12 <edsu> isn't the "story" part of the other egov linkeddata group's effort?
14:50:39 <edsu> zakim, unmute me
14:50:39 <Zakim> edsu should no longer be muted
14:50:57 <sandro> sandro: I think its: descision support for funding decisions.
14:51:15 <george> +1 sandro
14:51:58 <sandro> sandro: which has a nice self-referential quality -- the people who need to make funding decisions will be more likely to be familiar with this kind of app.
14:52:43 <edsu> zakim, mute me
14:52:43 <Zakim> edsu should now be muted
14:53:38 <mhausenblas> sandro, I've joined the eGov IG now, tried to login at with my W3C account mhausenb but failed
14:53:51 <sandro> george: this is what you're looking at, and why.
14:53:51 <mhausenblas> still says "Incorrect password entered. Please try again. "
14:54:08 <sandro> mhausenblas,  :-(
14:54:20 <dingl> dingl has joined #egov
14:54:27 <edsu> ok, sounds good 
14:55:05 <Li_Ding> finally get irc, but only have 5 minutes left
14:55:16 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
14:56:10 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: 
14:57:04 <Li_Ding> vocabulary for dataset description, dataset statistics or demo?
14:57:11 <sandro> cory: how money is spent
14:57:20 <sandro> sandro: but in service to how to spend money.
14:57:42 <Li_Ding> some links FYI
14:57:49 <Li_Ding> for list of interesting demos
14:58:02 <Li_Ding> the RDFa related demo is at
14:58:37 <sandro> Li, which are the best 3?
14:59:07 <Li_Ding>
14:59:11 <Li_Ding> with video demo
14:59:26 <Li_Ding> rdfa demo
15:00:31 <Li_Ding>  comparing three sources
15:00:47 <Li_Ding> dataset and find interesting mismatch
15:00:48 <edsu> zakim, unmute me
15:00:48 <Zakim> edsu should no longer be muted
15:00:56 <Li_Ding>
15:01:18 <Li_Ding> (sorry about the fourth) linking government data to Social web
15:01:38 <Li_Ding> a paper to read
15:01:39 <Li_Ding>
15:01:39 <george> [GLDDemo]
15:01:43 <Li_Ding> need to go now
15:01:45 <sandro> +1
15:01:47 <Li_Ding> sorry about that
15:01:49 <Li_Ding> thanks
15:01:56 <edsu> seeya li
15:02:02 <Zakim> -Li_Ding
15:04:16 <edsu> zakim, mute me 
15:04:16 <Zakim> edsu should now be muted
15:05:09 <sandro> action: sandro to ask if we can just use[wiki-page-name]
15:05:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-97 - Ask if we can just use[wiki-page-name] [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-02-12].
15:06:13 <sandro> Linked_Data_Demo
15:06:44 <sandro> Linked_Data, Linked_Data_Business_Case, Linked_Data_Demo
15:07:07 <sandro>
15:08:33 <sandro> [LDDEMO]
15:09:40 <edsu> zakim, unmute me
15:09:40 <Zakim> edsu should no longer be muted
15:12:29 <sandro>
15:12:39 <Zakim> -Cory
15:12:55 <sandro> ADJOURN