Chatlog 2010-02-03

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<josema> Guest: Karen Myers, W3C
13:14:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
13:14:12 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:14:17 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
13:14:22 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
13:26:37 <ChrisBeer> Sandro - do we have an agenda for this meeting at all?
13:26:55 <sandro> I'm about to send out.    Kevin was supposed to chair but cancelled.   :-(
13:27:18 <ChrisBeer> kk - I'm here, just in another program. back in 30 for meeting
13:46:43 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: 3 Feb IG call: AGENDA
13:53:59 <Cory> Cory has joined #egov
13:56:22 <bandholtz> bandholtz has joined #egov
13:59:01 <george> george has joined #egov
13:59:04 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
13:59:11 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:59:14 <sandro> scribe: jose
13:59:29 <josema> josema has joined #egov
13:59:40 <Zakim> +Cory
13:59:49 <martin_spain> martin_spain has joined #egov
14:00:01 <Zakim> + +49.178.404.aaaa
14:00:12 <Zakim> +Brand
14:00:27 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is bandholtz
14:00:27 <Zakim> +bandholtz; got it
14:00:43 <Zakim> +Martin
14:00:54 <josema> zakim, Martin has also me
14:00:54 <Zakim> +also, josema; got it
14:01:20 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin
14:01:22 <Zakim> Martin has also, josema
14:01:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:01:25 <Zakim> +Karen
14:01:26 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
14:01:52 <karen> karen has joined #egov
14:01:54 <sandro> zakim, martin has josema
14:01:54 <Zakim> josema was already listed in Martin, sandro
14:01:56 <Zakim> + +1.202.441.aabb
14:02:11 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett
14:02:20 <sandro> zakim, aabb is George_Thomas
14:02:20 <Zakim> +George_Thomas; got it
14:02:42 <Zakim> + +1.301.825.aacc
14:03:32 <Zakim> - +1.301.825.aacc
14:03:47 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:03:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett
14:03:50 <Zakim> Martin has also, josema
14:03:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:03:54 <josema> scribe: josema
14:03:54 <Zakim> + +0208392aadd
14:03:55 <Zakim> + +1.804.928.aaee
14:04:04 <edsu> edsu has joined #egov
14:04:17 <sandro> zakim, aaee is Harry_Holt
14:04:17 <Zakim> +Harry_Holt; got it
14:04:36 <sandro> zakim, aadd is John_Sheridan
14:04:36 <Zakim> +John_Sheridan; got it
14:04:41 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:04:44 <edsu> zakim, LC is edsu
14:04:44 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
14:04:48 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:04:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu
14:04:50 <Zakim> Martin has also, josema
14:04:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:04:52 <josema> rrsagent, start telcon
14:04:52 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start telcon', josema.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:05:19 <Daniel_Bennett> probably snow day here in washington dc area
14:05:51 <sandro> topic: administration
14:05:21 <josema> sandro: chairing this one myself since Kevin couldn't finally make it
14:05:31 <sandro>
14:05:40 <josema> agenda:
14:05:56 <josema> ... main point is to hear john about
14:06:02 <sandro> minutes   
14:06:18 <josema> sandro: any comments about the minutes?
14:06:24 <josema> [none heard]
14:06:30 <sandro>
14:06:40 <josema> ... next meeting in two weeks
14:06:52 <josema> ... need a scribe volunteer, please?
14:06:54 <sandro> scribe volunteer?
14:06:58 <luigi> luigi has joined #egov
14:07:01 <george> regrets for next meeting - out of the country
14:07:11 <karen> +1 Ed
14:07:13 <sandro> next scribe: EdSu
14:07:25 <josema> [Ed volunteers to scribe on 17 Feb]
14:07:26 <karen> q+
14:07:33 <josema> sandro: any comments about agenda today?
14:07:44 <luigi> hi all
14:07:49 <josema> karen: any updates around Comm, outreach and conferences?
14:07:51 <sandro> topic: Action Item Review
14:08:06 <josema> sandro: sure, when talking about news, etc.
14:08:12 <ChrisBeer> back
14:08:37 <sandro> action-14?
14:08:37 <trackbot> ACTION-14 -- John Sheridan to share how he justified the business decision of becoming W3C Members -- due 2008-10-30 -- OPEN
14:08:37 <trackbot>
14:08:48 <josema> sandro: john on sharing business case to become W3C Members
14:08:54 <josema> john: yeah, still on me
14:09:00 <josema> sandro: want a deadline?
14:09:10 <Zakim> + +1.303.748.aaff
14:09:15 <Zakim> - +1.303.748.aaff
14:09:33 <josema> john: not a bad idea, let's say that in 2 weeks time (17 Feb)
14:09:37 <Zakim> + +1.303.748.aagg
14:09:38 <josema> sandro: ok
14:09:47 <sandro> action-76?
14:09:47 <trackbot> ACTION-76 -- José Manuel Alonso to address funding issue -- due 2009-12-31 -- OPEN
14:09:47 <trackbot>
14:10:27 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #egov
14:11:03 <sandro> zakim, aagg is Gryth
14:11:03 <Zakim> +Gryth; got it
14:11:11 <josema> josema: not working on it anymore, should be better on the Coord Team
14:11:13 <sandro> action-89?
14:11:13 <trackbot> ACTION-89 -- José Manuel Alonso to explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates -- due 2009-09-16 -- OPEN
14:11:13 <trackbot>
14:11:23 <josema> ... it's about finding a way forward in terms of funding
14:12:18 <sandro> josema: I tried to schedule a F2F in Brussels in December, but it was complicated by other events, so that was postponed.    I wanted to do something TimBL could attend.
14:12:59 <karen> q
14:13:07 <karen> +1 around key events
14:13:49 <sandro> close action-89
14:13:49 <trackbot> ACTION-89 explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates closed
14:14:10 <josema> josema: maybe better to schedule around events in DC in March, I don't see how to make this happen in EU in the short term
14:14:38 <sandro> action-95
14:14:45 <sandro> topic: General Announcements, News
14:14:54 <josema> sandro: will try to do by next week??
14:15:26 <sandro>           - RDFa Working Group begins
14:15:30 <Daniel_Bennett> +q
14:15:36 <josema> sandro: a new group has been launched on RDFa, embedding RDF in HTML pages
14:16:03 <sandro> ack Daniel_bennett
14:16:05 <Zakim> +Rachel
14:16:26 <ChrisBeer> Awesome news :)
14:16:40 <josema> daniel: opengov directive (un)conferences taking place in DC, next one on Feb 17
14:17:01 <josema> ... last time had folks from OMB and other agencies that need to implement the OGD by April
14:17:09 <sandro>           - US Gov't Budget announced ($81bn for IT?)
14:17:38 <josema> sandro: heard from kevin, need to find more detail about allocation
14:17:58 <sandro> cory: that'll be hard
14:18:09 <sandro>           - Gov 2.0 Expo (proposal(s) accepted)
14:18:09 <josema> cory: very hard, but there may be a way, I guess
14:19:11 <josema> karen: IG submitted two proposals: panel on tradeoff and various types of techs (still under consideration)
14:19:30 <josema> ... second for workshop on how to put open data on the Web (accepted)
14:19:37 <josema> ... sandro and john to co-chair
14:19:59 <josema> ... another proposal from W3C on Accesibility (accepted, too) will see Judy Brewer
14:20:10 <josema> ... talking about that and its relation with mobile, etc.
14:20:18 <josema> ... we're very happy, very good visibility for us
14:20:29 <ChrisBeer> +1 Jose
14:20:35 <josema> ... also submitted to O'Reilly, no news yet
14:20:45 <Cory> yes
14:20:50 <josema> sandro: quick poll, who expects to attend?
14:20:53 <sandro> poll, attending gov 2 ?
14:20:54 <Daniel_Bennett> +.5
14:20:54 <josema> -1
14:20:55 <sandro> +1
14:20:58 <george> +1 - $$? tho
14:20:59 <bandholtz> -1
14:21:00 <karen> +
14:21:02 <karen> 1
14:21:04 <rachel> rachel has joined #egov
14:21:11 <sandro> brian: -1 (probably)
14:21:27 <sandro>           - FOSE (proposal(s) accepted)
14:21:40 <sandro> poll, attending fose
14:21:45 <rachel> Rachel +1
14:21:45 <josema> sandro: more proposals accepted, one for FOSE
14:21:46 <Cory> +.5
14:21:47 <sandro> sandro: don't know
14:21:48 <josema> -1
14:21:52 <bandholtz> -1
14:21:54 <karen> -1 (same time as W3C AC meeting)
14:21:55 <george> +.25
14:22:05 <edsu> -1 # will be in dc though 
14:22:20 <ChrisBeer> -1 :(
14:22:28 <josema> sandro: anything else about FOSE proposal?
14:22:43 <josema> karen: panel, kevin to chair, more focused on LOD
14:22:51 <josema> ... daniel also participating
14:23:10 <rachel> FOSE panel is Kevin, John, Daniel & Rachel
14:23:14 <josema> karen: more announcements
14:23:32 <sandro> subtopic: W3C AC members:  AC meeting March 21-23
14:23:33 <josema> ... for W3C AC Reps, registration is open (21-23 march at MIT)
14:23:46 <josema> ... WWW2010, April, Raleigh, LOD camp there
14:24:07 <josema> ... Web Science trust probably will co-locate and discuss eGov topics
14:24:10 <karen>
14:24:17 <josema> ... opportunity to co-locate a eGov IG F2F, too
14:24:40 <josema> ... RDF workshop announced, Ivan Herman is eager to see papers on vertical application areas
14:24:54 <josema> ... such as eGov, I want to encourage to submit
14:25:19 <josema> sandro: I wrote a blog post about the topic a couple months ago
14:25:20 <edsu> first REST conference is happening at www2010 too
14:25:32 <josema> sandro: any other announcements?
14:25:51 <josema> john: tomorrow I've been invited by Danish government to speak about
14:26:00 <Daniel_Bennett> nice John. have fun
14:26:04 <karen> +1 John Sheridan in Copenhagen
14:26:10 <josema> ... I'll be in Copenhagen, Danish Minister to open
14:26:10 <Daniel_Bennett> +1
14:26:24 <josema> ... 24 Feb, meetup in London
14:26:49 <josema> ... Setefano ?? project officer at EU looking at SW and use and adoption by Govs
14:27:03 <josema> ... he's trying to organize a workshop in Sept
14:27:57 <edsu> karen:
14:28:13 <josema> rachel: reminder to everyone in the US that agencies are supposed to put up a page to get feedback
14:28:28 <karen> Is there a link?
14:28:35 <josema> ... on OGD and how they can be more transparent to the public
14:28:41 <sandro> rachel: comment window opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks
14:29:01 <josema> ... comment opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks
14:29:32 <josema> sandro: pointers?
14:29:46 <josema> rachel: they'll be available from
14:29:51 <sandro> rachel: will be on  and see
14:30:13 <josema> ... we'll also have a page to help agencies do their /open ones from
14:30:22 <josema> sandro: more?
14:30:24 <edsu> karen: not sure what you're looking for, but that url has the info about the event, and how to sign up
14:30:25 <josema> [none heard]
14:30:28 <sandro> topic: Project Groups
14:30:49 <josema> sandro: last week we reviewed feedback, bunch of people interested
14:31:04 <sandro>
14:31:06 <josema> ... we asked people about potential times for telcons
14:31:17 <josema> ... poll closed yesterday
14:31:32 <harry> harry has joined #egov
14:31:44 <josema> ... group 4 was quite constraint, not much problems for the rest 
14:32:25 <josema> ... we need to review results and see when to start scheduling calls
14:32:29 <george> does today count for 3 days notice to this fri?
14:32:36 <josema> ... I need to book conference bridge, etc.
14:32:49 <josema> ... there's a 3-day advance notice for this
14:33:10 <josema> cory: group 2: I've a conflict for the same slot over the next couple weeks
14:33:32 <josema> ... in any case, I'd like to propose to combine 1&2
14:33:50 <josema> ... to bring the strategy and technical view together
14:34:03 <josema> ... would fit quite well for telcons in the near future
14:34:18 <josema> ... and I'd propose the group 1 slot for that
14:34:41 <josema> sandro: Thomas B?
14:34:51 <sandro> action: sandro reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1
14:34:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-96 - Reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-02-10].
14:34:54 <ChrisBeer> q+
14:35:05 <josema> thomas b: I'm also available on Thus??
14:35:32 <josema> cory: so we could probably start on Feb 11
14:35:34 <sandro> ack karen
14:35:37 <sandro> ack ChrisBeer 
14:35:43 <ChrisBeer> With regards to 4 - core members seem happy with the timing
14:35:56 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:35:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu, Gryth (muted), Rachel
14:35:59 <Zakim> Martin has also, josema
14:36:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see harry, Rachel, MoZ, luigi, edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:36:01 <edsu> ChrisBeer: you just on irc?
14:36:29 <sandro> subtopic: group 3
14:36:33 <ChrisBeer> Have had feedback from non-respondants directly who indicate that that timeslot is fine. I'd envision that after initial telecon, we'd move into a more collab online workspace...
14:36:36 <ChrisBeer> @ ed yes
14:36:54 <ChrisBeer> ... collab online workspace and meet only as required.
14:36:57 <josema> george: thanks for the survey, apparently Fri at 9am works for enough folks
14:37:24 <josema> .... we might want to start this week??
14:37:37 <josema> ... are we able to sue same tools?
14:37:40 <josema> s/??//
14:37:45 <josema> s/sue/use
14:38:00 <josema> sandro: yes, but I cannot guarantee to have it ready for this Fri
14:38:32 <josema> george: ok, thanks, I'll start a wiki page to organize stuff
14:38:46 <josema> ... I'll be away in India for 3 weeks, starting 8 Feb
14:39:00 <Cory> Sandro: Is there a "page" for projects 1&2?
14:39:05 <josema> ... so first thing for this Fri would be to get a co-coordinator to get things moving on
14:39:08 <sandro> not yet Cory, but you can make one.
14:39:14 <george>
14:39:16 <josema> s/sandro:/sandro,
14:39:42 <josema> sandro: anyone in the group can make project pages in the wiki
14:39:50 <sandro> subtopic: project 4
14:40:24 <sandro> subtopic: project 5
14:41:10 <josema> daniel: generally it's a great time but haven't checked with all the group if they can attend
14:41:24 <josema> ... Chris and I to work closely together
14:41:27 <Cory> Also, is there group mail lists?
14:41:42 <ChrisBeer> +1 Daniel
14:41:44 <josema> s/Also:/Also,
14:41:48 <ChrisBeer> +1 Cory
14:41:56 <josema> ... good question from Cory on IRC
14:41:59 <sandro> subtopic: project 6
14:42:09 <josema> s/IRC/on subgroup lists
14:42:49 <josema> brian: very good time for me, haven't checked closely with people yet
14:43:03 <ChrisBeer> With regard to My and Daniels projects - given thier nature, much of the work can take place via correspondance imo, so we can be fairly flexible on when and what time we have those meetings.
14:43:13 <josema> ... expect to develop best practices for social media in gov
14:43:37 <josema> ... I'd like to hold first meeting next week
14:43:46 <josema> ... Feb 12 at 3pm ET
14:44:25 <josema> sandro: mailing lists, we discussed about using tags at the beginning of the subject
14:44:33 <OwenAmbur> OwenAmbur has joined #egov
14:44:33 <josema> ... or making lists for subgroups
14:44:56 <josema> ... I don't have a strong opinion, probably separate mailing lists is more flexible
14:45:44 <ChrisBeer> would like to see discussion forum format or the wiki actively used. Using tags on main list is a good idea - encourages participation from others on an ad-hoc basis
14:46:06 <george> +1 Chris
14:46:10 <josema> daniel: we can discuss among ourselves in the groups, use wiki discussion pages, ??
14:46:12 <george> folks can 'watch' wiki pages
14:46:22 <ChrisBeer> +1
14:46:38 <Zakim> +??P25
14:46:43 <josema> sandro: I'm not sure
14:47:11 <josema> [some discussion about the various possibilities offered by the wiki]
14:47:44 <edsu> you might be able to filter based on page category, if groups assign their pages to a category
14:47:46 <josema> rrsagent, pointer
14:47:46 <RRSAgent> See
14:47:57 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate josema
14:47:58 <george> +1 cory - create an entry page, make links on that to new pages, watch the entry page
14:48:10 <ChrisBeer> Case in point - it works for 100,000's people editing collaboratively on wikipedia, I'm sure we can make ours work for our little efforts :)
14:48:20 <josema> sandro: anybody feels strongly about separate mailing lists?
14:48:34 <josema> cory: let's start with subject tags and figure out if they're needed
14:48:35 <george> +1 cory - [3] = GLD_Demo
14:48:51 <ChrisBeer> I do in that I don't like the idea - encourages non-transparency
14:48:58 <josema> ??: I second that
14:49:06 <sandro> s/??/Brian/
14:49:23 <josema> ... if things get too "spammy" we might want to start separate ones
14:49:25 <edsu> +1 for 1 mailing list
14:49:35 <sandro> consensus is one list for now.
14:49:36 <josema> sandro. I think I hear consensus on starting with tags
14:49:42 <josema> s/sandro./sandro:
14:50:12 <josema> sandro: for the tags... I guess that people from each group should come up with their own
14:50:26 <josema> sandro: anything else on the groups that we need right now?
14:50:32 <luigi> why not using a forum instead of a mailing list ?
14:50:37 <josema> ... I'll go ahead and make telcon reservations asap
14:50:41 <ChrisBeer> If we limit messages to the list to general discussion and RFCs on issues, we should be ok re "spammy". I'd encourage TF1-6 with the caveats someone suggested (FYI etc)
14:50:42 <Daniel_Bennett> group 5 can use the URL of their main page as the tag for their email, etc
14:50:42 <george> @sandro - thanks! will follow up :)
14:51:08 <josema> sandro: luigi, that's not what we have been using so far and haven't heard any push for that
14:51:11 <george> discussion on wiki page = subject forum
14:51:16 <sandro> topic: 
14:51:20 <ChrisBeer> +1 luigi, but unfortunately infrastructure would lie outside of w3c namespace :(
14:52:02 <luigi> ok, :(
14:52:04 <Cory> There is a (US) meeting next thursday - is anyone going?
14:52:04 <ChrisBeer> (ie: would require w3c to set up, test, tie into permissions structure etc)
14:52:20 <josema> john: we had a preview launch back in Nov 2009
14:52:26 <josema> ... to get feedback from the developer community
14:52:53 <josema> ... site was focused on being attractive to developers
14:53:05 <sandro> john: is for developers, not for end-users.
14:53:18 <josema> ... departments are able to make more end-user friendly but not the main focus
14:53:23 <Cory> Interesting, we have no developer site for the US
14:53:25 <Zakim> + +1.410.975.aahh
14:53:31 <josema> ... most datasets were published by departaments themselves
14:53:51 <josema> ... office of statistical information put info about transport, crime statistics
14:53:54 <w3> w3 has joined #egov
14:54:09 <josema> ... there was a lot of policy activity focused on what should be done
14:54:29 <josema> ... goal 1 is transparency but also very important enabling economic benefits
14:54:37 <ChrisBeer> We have one in Australi (developer site) - general feedback is good
14:54:39 <josema> ... of people building services and products on top
14:55:05 <josema> ... published a paper on smarter government on this with some focus on public information
14:55:08 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
14:55:20 <Zakim> josema, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Sheridan (40%), Gryth (13%)
14:55:48 <josema> ... UK gov followed W3C recommendations, in particular SW + LD
14:56:19 <josema> ... discussion on which info should be made free, which one should have some sort of tax
14:56:40 <josema> ... best example is Ordnance Survey, which is used to charge for its data
14:56:56 <edsu> -> Smarter Government
14:56:56 <josema> ... this needed consideration on the policy level, too
14:57:13 <ChrisBeer> question, is all data released under creative commons, or does Crown retain copyright?
14:57:30 <josema> ... and a big policy change to make it free
14:58:00 <josema> ... because it costs to make information public
14:58:19 <josema> ... another interesting discussion was around CC
14:58:40 <josema> ... if it was compatible or not with licenses in the UK
14:58:54 <josema> ... differences between 2.5 and 3.0 versions
14:59:11 <josema> ... an issue in EU is the concept of ?? right, non-existant in the US
14:59:26 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
14:59:27 <MoZ_> MoZ_ has joined #egov
14:59:36 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Martin (28%), Karen (19%), John_Sheridan (34%), Gryth (8%)
14:59:46 <josema> zakim, mute me
14:59:46 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:59:52 <josema> zakim, mute Martin
14:59:52 <Zakim> Martin should now be muted
15:00:30 <josema> ... on the technology side, having the departments producing the metadata themselves
15:00:47 <josema> ... was a great idea, we did not intend to build a big central database
15:01:20 <josema> ... how we can persist information of Web documents it's also of paramount importance for us
15:01:40 <josema> ... we do archive Web content, it's the responsibility of the agencies to do it properly
15:01:58 <josema> ... so if page not available, people will still be able to access it in the archive
15:02:05 <josema> .. .same consideration for datasets
15:02:11 <josema> s/.. ./...
15:02:33 <josema> ... our approach to preservation is a very important piece of our work
15:02:42 <josema> ... we use some RDFa, we will use more
15:02:51 <josema> ... for example we mark CC licensed content
15:03:07 <josema> ... we're adding it to descriptions of applications people are producing
15:03:25 <josema> ... few things we learned by suing LD over last couple months:
15:03:43 <josema> ... 1. needs of data producers much different from those of data consumers
15:04:00 <josema> ... puts obligation into producers at departments to do the right thing
15:04:15 <josema> ... on consumer side: many developers are much more comfortable using simpler APIs
15:04:44 <josema> ... it's been a paradox, we're doing a piece of work on how we can "constraint" ourselves
15:05:15 <josema> ... to build API features automatically onto data, so those can use it in an easier way for them
15:05:18 <luigi> maybe URI persistence must be distinguidshed from documents persistence
15:05:25 <josema> ... significant work being put on this
15:06:18 <sandro> q?
15:06:23 <josema> ... for example, publishing JSON vs SPARQL endpoint
15:06:35 <josema> ... first implementation should be available in few weeks
15:06:54 <sandro> (very cool -- automatic JSON and XML APIs from Linked Data)
15:07:21 <josema> ... in terms of some of the problems, we faced a few
15:07:35 <josema> ... for example, if you have a URI for a school and data from a school
15:07:50 <josema> ... those are changed at different places and at a different point in time
15:07:54 <josema> s/are/may
15:08:01 <josema> s/may/may be
15:08:32 <josema> ... so if I want to get data about the school today, might be not the same I had a few months ago
15:08:42 <josema> ... but the old one might not be available anywhere
15:08:57 <josema> ... we're trying a few models and patterns to cope with this
15:09:00 <sandro> (yeah, that's a challenge .... looking at how the data was at time T....   (slightly different from how the world was at time T))
15:09:30 <josema> ... another big issue is provenance, what processes it has gone through
15:09:39 <josema> ... who produced this data in the first place
15:10:02 <josema> ... we are focusing hard on location information, trying to align LD work
15:10:13 <josema> ... with implementation of the EU INSPIRE directive
15:10:35 <josema> ... every object in EU should have a unique identifier (a boundary, for example)
15:10:44 <josema> ... we need to reconcile how this is done with a LD approach
15:11:10 <josema> ... second area: statistic, XTNS?? standard heavily used
15:11:33 <josema> ... we hosted a 2-day workshop to learn how to reconcile both approaches
15:11:47 <josema> q?
15:12:20 <Cory> Paper on change and provenance that may be useful:
15:12:42 <josema> ... significant work also went on culture, significant concern from producers
15:12:55 <sandro> (yes - big fear - that this technology allows people to quickly and easily misunderstand the data  :-)
15:13:16 <josema> ... big concern about loosing context and how people could interpret the data
15:13:38 <josema> ... although we have a clear mandate, we talked and talked with people
15:13:43 <sandro> q?
15:13:48 <george> q+
15:13:58 <josema> ... gave them tons of examples, TimBL invested significant time on this
15:14:16 <josema> ... huge amount of activity on: policy, technology and cultural change
15:14:25 <Rachel> correction to comments about about /opengov comment period - it is open for six weeks (not 2)
15:14:31 <josema> ... tech going very fast, fantastic people working on it
15:14:51 <george> BIG THANKS TO JS!!! GREAT STUFF!!!!!
15:15:06 <josema> sandro: thanks, john, couple question
15:15:13 <josema> ... how many people working on this?
15:15:44 <josema> john: core team of 10-15 people, but it spans out, we are kickstarting in several parts of gov
15:16:22 <josema> ... statistics workshop alone had 37 people in attendance
15:17:23 <josema> ... 30-40 officials from various departments also quickly involved when we needed to solve policy issues
15:17:31 <josema> sandro: how much of the published data is linked data?
15:17:40 <josema> john: not much, but getting there
15:17:41 <sandro> q?
15:18:01 <josema> ... we did a piece of work on building URIs for UK public sector
15:18:16 <josema> ... not LD per se but putting the pillars
15:18:32 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:18:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate josema
15:18:55 <josema> ... we have been identifying these pillars over the last couple months
15:19:36 <sandro> (good question: when iso establishes IDs for something, who should make a URI for them?)
15:19:53 <sandro> ack george 
15:20:18 <josema> george: I very much appreciate the work you guys are doing across technical and cultural boundaries
15:20:37 <josema> ... what's the role played by CKAN and Talis??
15:20:56 <josema> john: in order to have single point of access, we wanted to build OSS tools
15:21:03 <josema> ... we use Drupal and CKAN
15:21:18 <josema> ... CKAN is a packaging system for code and data
15:21:28 <josema> ... it provides a metadata registry service
15:21:39 <josema> ... Talis provides hosting for LD
15:22:00 <josema> ... but we want to publish on a distributed way
15:22:15 <josema> ... they should be able to use other methods in the future, maybe Talis, maybe their own
15:22:36 <sandro> q?
15:23:00 <josema> ... from a government procurement perspective this is good, you need better competition
15:23:08 <josema> ... more to choose from, creates a marketplace
15:23:16 <edsu> q+
15:23:39 <josema> .. Talis been fantastic in terms of support and expertise, lot of capability, very helpful
15:23:49 <sandro> q?
15:23:53 <sandro> ack edsu 
15:24:32 <josema> ed: second what George said, very important work
15:25:36 <josema> ... do you think of LD as also encompassing the use of RDFa in pages (not datasets)?
15:26:04 <josema> john: absolutely
15:26:07 <edsu> josema: no worries i stumbled through that question :-)
15:26:11 <Daniel_Bennett> +1 John -- exciting work John
15:26:44 <Daniel_Bennett> good luck in Copenhagen. 
15:28:00 <josema> ... example: if on owns the URI for the county of Norfolk
15:28:07 <josema> s/on/one
15:28:33 <sandro> (great stuff, having a separate same-as service to say "we *think* the wikipedia County of Norfolk is the same as our *official* County of Norfolk.")
15:28:35 <sandro> q?
15:28:40 <josema> ... one (gov) is reluctant to say that URI is the same as the one from the wikipedia
15:28:42 <Cory> Technical point: sameAs as an overly strong assertion - need Equivelent class
15:28:58 <josema> ... referring to that country because *one* is the official authoritative resource
15:29:05 <josema> john: we are learning heaps and heaps
15:29:14 <josema> ... you need to try this stuff out and experiment
15:29:17 <karen> q+
15:29:47 <Cory> Cont... Need equivelent for "instances"
15:29:52 <josema> ... also massive is that we are not making happy many of the pragmatic people in search of data
15:30:01 <sandro> (yes, just providing linked data is not enough for developers -- some need JSON)
15:30:02 <josema> ... hence our API/JSON/XML approach
15:30:22 <sandro> ack karen
15:30:22 <josema> ... potentially a huge win for LD standards
15:30:34 <josema> karen: thanks, john, helps me get more context, too
15:30:36 <george> isn't JSON serialization a part of 'RDF Futures'?
15:31:02 <josema> ... US and UK initiatives, josema in Spain, you going to Denmark
15:31:27 <josema> ... big question: how we can/shoud connect this IG, internationally effort better with those?
15:31:33 <karen> +1 JohnSheridan "World Tour" :)
15:31:37 <josema> ... probably better for next time
15:31:40 <george> thanks all
15:31:45 <josema> sandro: time is over
15:31:49 <josema> .. we're adjourned
15:31:57 <josema> ... next meeting on Feb 17
15:32:03 <josema> [ADJOURNED]