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<sandro> Guest: Karen Myers, W3C <sandro> Guest: Yolanda Gil, ISI <sandro> Topic: Next Meetings, Scribe <sandro> Chair: Kevin, Sandro <sandro> Present: Anne_Washington, Brand_Niemann, Brian_Gryth, Chris_Beer, Cory_Casanave, Daniel_Bennett, Ed_Summers, George_Thomas, Joe_Carmel, John_Sheridan, Ken_Fischer, Kevin_Novak, Sandro_Hawke, Thomas_Bandholtz 13:57:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov 13:57:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/06-egov-irc 13:57:22 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started 13:57:22 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public 13:57:30 <Zakim> + +49.178.404.aaaa 13:58:11 <Cory> Cory has joined #egov 13:58:42 <johnlsheridan> johnlsheridan has joined #egov 13:59:30 <sandro> zakim, what is the code? 13:59:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro 13:59:46 <Zakim> +Sandro 14:00:03 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call 14:00:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', sandro 14:00:05 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:00:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see +49.178.404.aaaa, Sandro 14:00:11 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Thomas 14:00:11 <Zakim> +Thomas; got it 14:00:26 <edsu> edsu has joined #egov 14:01:17 <Zakim> +??P11 14:01:18 <Zakim> + +1.703.880.aabb 14:01:49 <sandro> zakim, aabb is Cory 14:01:49 <Zakim> +Cory; got it 14:01:54 <Zakim> + +1.703.994.aacc 14:01:59 <george> george has joined #egov 14:02:03 <sandro> zakim, P11 is johnlsheridan 14:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P11' 14:02:07 <sandro> zakim, ??P11 is johnlsheridan 14:02:07 <Zakim> +johnlsheridan; got it 14:02:17 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:02:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan, Cory, +1.703.994.aacc 14:02:29 <Zakim> +[LC] 14:02:41 <edsu> Zakim, LC is edsu 14:02:41 <Zakim> +edsu; got it 14:02:47 <george> i'll be on the phone shortly 14:02:52 <sandro> zakim, aacc is Ken 14:02:52 <Zakim> +Ken; got it 14:03:14 <johnlsheridan> zakim, mute me 14:03:14 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should now be muted 14:03:19 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan (muted), Cory, Ken, edsu 14:03:28 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov 14:03:30 <johnlsheridan> I'm sure you don't want to hear me coughing.... 14:03:37 <johnlsheridan> So will be mostly muted 14:04:17 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov 6 Jan http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Jan/0007 14:04:41 <Zakim> +Brian 14:04:49 <johnlsheridan> I can scribe 14:04:53 <Zakim> +Kevin 14:04:56 <sandro> scribe: Cory 14:05:24 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:05:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan (muted), Cory, Ken, edsu, Brian, Kevin 14:05:34 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett 14:06:14 <Zakim> -Brian 14:07:03 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel volunteers to scribe next meeting 14:07:09 <Daniel_Bennett> for Jan 20 14:07:27 <Daniel_Bennett> no prob 14:07:30 <Karen> Karen has joined #egov 14:07:33 <johnlsheridan> thanks Daniel 14:08:09 <Zakim> +Brian 14:08:13 <johnlsheridan> unmute me 14:08:22 <sandro> zakim, unmute johnlsheridan 14:08:22 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should no longer be muted <sandro> topic: Action Review 14:08:36 <sandro> action-14? 14:08:36 <trackbot> ACTION-14 -- John Sheridan to share how he justified the business decision of becoming W3C Members -- due 2008-10-30 -- OPEN 14:08:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/14 14:09:02 <sandro> action-82, eGov web page deisgn for outreach 14:09:05 <johnlsheridan> zakim, mute me 14:09:05 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should now be muted 14:10:10 <sandro> topic: Our Website 14:10:40 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers # 14:11:12 <ChrisBeer> Topic: website? 14:13:00 <sandro> daniel: Let's use the w3.org design 14:13:27 <sandro> daniel: Need design and requirements as well as branding and look of W3c sites. Should start with content decisions. 14:13:33 <Zakim> + +1.202.690.aadd 14:13:43 <Zakim> + +1.202.564.aaee 14:13:58 <george> just joined the call 14:14:28 <sandro> george, which one is you, +1.202.690.aadd or +1.202.564.aaee ? 14:14:32 <joec> joec has joined #egov 14:14:40 <Karen> +1 web site as staging/image/visibility 14:15:42 <Zakim> +joec 14:16:47 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? <cory> Sandro: Use of Wikipedia as a public face, in combination with the W3C materials. 14:17:00 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Daniel_Bennett (30%), Brian (43%) 14:17:05 <joec> that was daniel i think 14:17:18 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, that was Daniel 14:17:39 <sandro> Daniel: We should use both Wikipedia and the w3.org site, [lots of details] <cory> Brian: Use W3C page for more of assertion of best practice. Wikiepedia more of a general introduction. 14:17:48 <george> sandro - i'm 202.690 14:17:58 <sandro> zakim, aadd is George 14:17:58 <Zakim> +George; got it 14:18:01 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:18:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan (muted), Cory, Ken, edsu, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Brian, Karen_Myers, George, +1.202.564.aaee, joec 14:20:41 <Daniel_Bennett> fyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:USBill 14:20:56 <annew> annew has joined #egov 14:21:04 <sandro> Daniel: we're only like ten people; there are lots more people passing through wikipedia pages 14:21:24 <Daniel_Bennett> that was Joe, Sandro 14:21:34 <sandro> kenf: We could open up our mediawiki to everyone. 14:21:45 <sandro> s/someone/joe/ 14:22:10 <sandro> joe: Almost every site I found, like Josh's site on open gov data, ... they all require logins. 14:23:03 <ChrisBeer> That is actually I think a better open (@ken) IMO - we can't really self reference or write "original research" things on Wikipedia, however, we can write on mediawiki and use our work as references and links within the appropriate articles. 14:23:10 <Karen> Sandro: if our community was active and monitoring 14:24:05 <sandro> kevin: Maybe double-posting between wikipedia AND our wiki 14:24:15 <ChrisBeer> All sites need logins - anon. edits on wikipedia tend to be scrutinised and aren't liked that much within the community unless its an obvious correction done by someone on the fly 14:24:22 <sandro> joe: Yes, if our stuff is valuable, we should put it there. 14:24:36 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, we should cite w3c when appropriate. especially to the standards 14:24:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 14:25:43 <Daniel_Bennett> our web site is staging ground and our work and then help with the wikipedia 14:26:18 <Daniel_Bennett> we dont need to worry about the wikipedia pages since it will take care of itself 14:26:57 <sandro> sandro: I hear consensus that we should maintain our wiki (not anonymous) and also help with some wikipedia pages 14:27:15 <Daniel_Bennett> +sandro 14:27:40 <ChrisBeer> +1 Daniel - wikipeida not really that good as a sandbox - combo of w3c mediawiki + blog + twit and good seo etc should get collaborators in - finished work on Wikipedia + identified pages that we should assist with. +1 sandro 14:27:59 <sandro> sandro: Lets make a wikipedia page on our wiki listing the pages we're thinking about, and related issues. 14:28:22 <ChrisBeer> Under projects? 14:28:46 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, link to all relevant wikipedia pages that we think should be linked to. building a "web" of ... <cory> Sandro: Conclusion; Use both, balance TBD. But both will be mediawiki. Have W3C page that links back to Wikipedia. All IG pages will be migrated to mediawiki. <cory> Daniel: Still need web content design prior to starting work. 14:29:24 <sandro> action: sandro move IG pages to mediawiki - due 2010-01-31 14:29:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - move IG pages to mediawiki [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-01-31]. 14:30:29 <sandro> cory: Let's have a session where we sketch out an outline 14:31:01 <sandro> daniel: I think the site design needs to follow knowing what we're doing 14:31:05 <ChrisBeer> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects/Wikipedia_Pages_of_Interest/ 14:32:05 <sandro> +1 ChrisBeer 14:32:28 <sandro> Errrr, I don't think it should have "Projects" in there, though, Chris. 14:33:15 <sandro> and the trailing slash, Chris ?? 14:34:14 <sandro> kevin: After we've done the Projects poll, let's turn it over to the ETF to come up with the information archietcure. 14:34:26 <sandro> kevin: Let's come back to this, seriously, on the 20th. <sandro> topic: Action Review (cont) 14:34:47 <sandro> close action-82 14:34:47 <trackbot> ACTION-82 Take a look at eGov home design closed 14:34:50 <sandro> close action-83 14:34:50 <trackbot> ACTION-83 Take a look at eGov home design closed 14:35:15 <sandro> close action-91 14:35:15 <trackbot> ACTION-91 Organize informal meeting of IG members at TPAC closed 14:35:26 <sandro> action-92? 14:35:26 <trackbot> ACTION-92 -- Kevin Novak to put out call for volunteers to survey agencies for those most ready for next steps in creating open data projects -- due 2009-09-30 -- OPEN 14:35:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/92 14:35:35 <sandro> close action-92 14:35:35 <trackbot> ACTION-92 put out call for volunteers to survey agencies for those most ready for next steps in creating open data projects closed 14:36:11 <sandro> close action-93 14:36:11 <trackbot> ACTION-93 investigate and report back WYSIWYG editor wiki options closed 14:36:32 <sandro> close action-94 14:36:32 <trackbot> ACTION-94 Send mail to the group about wikipedia ideas closed 14:36:40 <ChrisBeer> @sandro Sorry - was replying to mail - added under projects because I saw Daniel reply yes to my question of "under projects?". (and it is kind of a project in that sense). Trailing slash because its 1.30 am :) will fix 14:37:13 <sandro> close action-33 14:37:13 <trackbot> ACTION-33 Draft XML Schema for DRM as use case to use it for 10. What data? closed 14:37:37 <ChrisBeer> (how does http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Wikipedia_Pages_of_Interest sound - better?) 14:37:41 <sandro> topic: Project Poll 14:37:43 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/project-signup/ <sandro> sandro: Hey, great, we've had a lot of responses already. <sandro> sandro: If you haven't done it yet, do it now! 14:38:47 <Zakim> -Brian 14:39:23 <sandro> topic: Events 14:39:28 <Zakim> +Brian 14:39:36 <Zakim> + +1.410.975.aaff 14:39:50 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:39:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan (muted), Cory, Ken, edsu, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Karen_Myers, George, +1.202.564.aaee, joec, [IPcaller], Brian (muted), 14:39:53 <Zakim> ... +1.410.975.aaff 14:41:22 <Karen> Kevin: FOSE panel accepted for this March 14:41:32 <Karen> ...we are submitting for O'Reilly 14:41:42 <Karen> ...and let us know about other opportunities 14:42:04 <sandro> zakim, aaee is Brand 14:42:04 <Zakim> +Brand; got it 14:42:19 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Jim 14:42:19 <Zakim> +Jim; got it 14:42:53 <sandro> zakim, who is the call? 14:42:53 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, sandro. 14:43:13 <sandro> topic: George's GLD IT Dashboard Demo <cory> George: Introduction (HHS and OMB): IT Dashboard & GLD demo. <cory> George: Has a lot of information about I.T. investments but not reasons. Use semantic technologies connection what we are doing with why. Prototype using freebase – I.T. dashboard connected to OMG business motivation standard for “why”. Imported into semantic mediawiki. May be part of what HHS proposes to open gov project. Shows social media combined with RDF goodness <cory> See project here: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects#GLD_Demo 14:45:26 <ChrisBeer> (FYI http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Wikipedia_Pages_of_Interest created and added to Main page as link) 14:46:31 <Zakim> +??P27 14:48:15 <ChrisBeer> George has been busy :) 14:48:29 <sandro> indeed he has! 14:49:36 <johnlsheridan> this is good to hear George :) 14:50:07 <ChrisBeer> I left some initial late night comments on his SDW page, but I think we def need some other demo's that equal his efforts, but in a non-US centric example. I saw Thomas sent a Euro suggestion to the list :) 14:50:15 <edsu> george++ :-) 14:50:26 <annew> Way to go George 14:52:06 <Daniel_Bennett> what is the link? 14:52:52 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise? 14:52:57 <ChrisBeer> @george how long till Bizmo is fully fleshed out? 14:53:03 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 14:53:23 <ChrisBeer> @daniel read http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects under Demo project, also try http://bizmo.freebase.com/ 14:54:00 <sandro> george: interested in moving beyond freebase, maybe trying virtuoso, maybe experts doing better modeling, .... <cory> Sandro: George, how can others be involved? 14:54:21 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:54:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan (muted), Cory, Ken, edsu, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Karen_Myers, George, Brand, joec, [IPcaller], Brian (muted), Jim, ??P27 14:54:41 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise? 14:54:51 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: George (40%) 14:55:25 <Daniel_Bennett> ooooh UML? 14:55:51 <ChrisBeer> @george Still - the concepts are sound and for demo purposes could be ported to any engine/model 14:56:12 <Daniel_Bennett> is there that link to UML and XML Schemas you mentioned George? 14:56:26 <johnlsheridan> Jeni Tennison's five part blog posting is pretty good on this wrt gov linked data. See: http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/135 for the first part 14:56:58 <Cory> Publishing data (including models) is where we are doing on this open source project: http://portal.modeldriven.org/project/EKB 14:57:01 <Daniel_Bennett> or convert StratML to RDFa so it is also human readable 14:57:53 <Karen> +1 make the case of benefits and demo 14:57:57 <Zakim> -Kevin 14:58:06 <Zakim> -[IPcaller] 14:58:10 <Daniel_Bennett> idea for Owen, add embedded self cites to StratML 14:58:14 <sandro> Kevin and Owen running off to other meetings 14:58:33 <johnlsheridan> +1 re use-case 14:59:03 <ChrisBeer> (Actually - big up to John LS :) Saw the Archives persistant link system for .gov.uk pages :) very nice, great LGD example in its own way 14:59:30 <edsu> ChrisBeer: url? 14:59:35 <Zakim> +??P31 14:59:54 <Karen> RPI's project 14:59:56 <ChrisBeer> Am just looking - it's on work comp though (history) - hang on 15:00:14 <sandro> (RPI = Rensselaer == where Jim Hendler is) <cory> RPI Project for open gov data is Tetherless world 15:00:40 <johnlsheridan> edsu - see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/392.htm 15:01:06 <edsu> johnlsheridan: cheers 15:01:15 <annew> is it cambridge semantics who does cvs 2 rdf? 15:01:28 <Daniel_Bennett> please add URLs for each of the examples here. 15:01:48 <ChrisBeer> (@john cheers) 15:01:48 <johnlsheridan> q+ 15:01:55 <sandro> yes, Cambridge Semantics has a product connecting spreadsheets to RDF <cory> Summary: Multiple tools for getting into RDF. 15:02:06 <johnlsheridan> zakim, unmute me 15:02:14 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should no longer be muted 15:02:44 <Karen> W3C-XBRL WOrkshop Link: 15:02:44 <Daniel_Bennett> where on the agenda are we? 15:02:45 <Karen> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/cfp.html 15:03:01 <sandro> Daniel_Bennett, we're nominally still in the Demo section. 15:03:04 <annew> who is speaking? 15:03:10 <joec> brand 15:03:24 <Daniel_Bennett> Walter Hamscher, US Securities and Exchange Commission 15:03:34 <annew> thanks 15:04:34 <sandro> george: When a CIO hears this conversation, they're not interesting in a company that can solve their problems. They want to know how and why it works. This group needs to demonstrate how this works, not the tools. 15:04:46 <sandro> who is talking? 15:04:49 <Daniel_Bennett> we need to help techies talk to policy folks, use cases vs. geeky talk 15:05:11 <Karen> Cambridge Semantics Presentation on spreadsheets; XBRL and SemWeb: 15:05:12 <Karen> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/xbrl/talks/Michael-Cataldo.pdf 15:05:13 <Daniel_Bennett> please announce yourselves to the group 15:05:49 <sandro> rofl 15:06:08 <sandro> brand: cloud computing will be a rainmaker 15:06:09 <johnlsheridan> I would agree with George, I thought he put it very well - the need to clearly demonstrate benefits in the context of a real use-case 15:06:16 <Daniel_Bennett> +1 annew <cory> When talking to gov people, need to separate concerns of why and how, they need to understand the value and trust that it can be done. Others then need links to how to do it. <george> +1 15:06:16 <ChrisBeer> (another suggestion for "case" demo - the current world wide linking of gov publications through libraries - its old tech, but perfect example of GLD based around publications) 15:06:28 <Karen> +1 good discussion George 15:06:31 <johnlsheridan> thanks George! 15:06:38 <ChrisBeer> +1 john 15:06:44 <annew> I think the title was cloud computing with a chance of semantics. LOL <sandro> topic: Provenance Incubator group <cory> Yolanda: Chair of provenance group, introduces group and defines problem space. 15:07:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/ 15:07:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Survey 15:07:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Dimensions 15:07:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases 15:07:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases#Exemplifying_Provenance_Dimensions_with_Use_Cases 15:07:24 <george> thank you all - i look forward to exploring more with all <cory> Yolanda: Goals, Understanding state of art and requirements for provenance on the web. Way to capture, for any piece of information, how it came about – who, why, process, authority and such for judgments about trust. How to handle inconsistency or conflict in data. Applies across may domains of interest. Gov interest group input would be appreciated. There has been a lot of research in this areas. <cory> Yolanda: Provenance dimensions: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Dimensions <cory> Dimensions : Management, Polices, Scale, Use, Acountability, Trust jugements <cory> Yolanda: Enumerated set of use cases. http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases 15:07:36 <ChrisBeer> I would put forward libraries as a good case study in that sense - has practical and obvious benefits, is already in use, is currently being made semantic. 15:07:39 <Daniel_Bennett> Provenance has interesting overlaps with us <cory> Joe: Considering digital signatures (Gov printing office)- would make a good use case. <cory> Yolanda: Don’t have that use case yet, but have discussed it. 15:08:01 <Zakim> -Brand 15:08:22 <johnlsheridan> zakim, mute me 15:08:22 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should now be muted 15:11:13 <Daniel_Bennett> and for the public, the provenance of govt data is quite important, especially as the data is echoed through gov sites and non-gov sites 15:12:25 <Daniel_Bennett> and as legacy data is copied from paper or old proprietary formats to electronic open standard formats. 15:12:32 <ChrisBeer> and yet how many (for instance) PDF files produced by .gov.* are digitially signed for instance - my experience is that solving prov. is as much about a shift in public sector culture as it is about tech 15:12:51 <Cory> Don't need to sell me, need to know how we are going to support this in semweb! 15:12:59 <ChrisBeer> (oh - rhetorical - not many .gov files are signed) 15:13:26 <ChrisBeer> <content> <has digisig> <value> :) 15:13:53 <Cory> <content> is graph, resource or triple? 15:14:23 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Dimensions 15:14:54 <Daniel_Bennett> digital signatures is a closed system that can be helpful or not. I would say having a web of echoes and references around the web can be really valuable whether or not hashes or sigs are included. 15:15:03 <ChrisBeer> @Cory - has to be resource, or instance of resource (a "copy" in a publications sense) if its a file. signing a dataset presents its own prov. probs. 15:16:05 <Daniel_Bennett> another reason to make government data easier to copy and reference. 15:16:16 <ChrisBeer> @Daniel - Prov is linked to trust - public only cares if the information is "official" or not - echoes and refs not simple enough 15:16:36 <ChrisBeer> *simply 15:16:50 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases 15:16:51 <Cory> But a resource is not owned by any particular graph, 15:17:19 <sandro> wow, that's a lot of use cases.... 15:18:00 <Daniel_Bennett> hmmm. i think that most people prefer easy to find data than "signed" documents. "trust" is usually oft repeated, but usually a secondary process when a problem arises. 15:18:26 <Daniel_Bennett> also most data is granular and is hard to sign each datum. 15:18:27 <johnlsheridan> zakim, unmute me 15:18:27 <Zakim> johnlsheridan should no longer be muted 15:18:56 <sandro> joe: digital signatures? 15:19:12 <sandro> yolanda: it's not a use case for us, but it's important 15:19:36 <annew> digital signatures for public laws as well as bills from the 110th congress 15:19:40 <Daniel_Bennett> no one can keep john from speaking up. UNMUTE JOHN! 15:19:42 <ChrisBeer> @Cory + @Daniel - think like a user, all other prov issues aside - public either wants first hand data/files/info from a .gov.* domain (which by inference is always "official") or if viewing second hand and wanting verfication of .gov.* prov, will check on .gov.* anyway 15:19:47 <sandro> Joe_carmel: Gov't printing office GPO 15:19:48 <sandro> Yolanda Gil <gil@ISI.EDU> 15:20:01 <Daniel_Bennett> 10 mins left 15:20:05 <johnlsheridan> q+ 15:21:08 <Daniel_Bennett> +1 liaison with Provenance Incubator group 15:21:11 <sandro> cory: The Semantic Web stack needs some new standard here 15:21:17 <edsu> some more info about gpo and digital signatures: http://www.gpo.gov/help/authentication_of_information.htm 15:21:23 <sandro> yolanda: this group will run until september 15:21:46 <annew> +q 15:21:49 <sandro> ack johnlsheridan 15:21:52 <ChrisBeer> +1 daniel - Prov + .gov.* + SM is a major issue we could use input on 15:23:31 <ChrisBeer> (@edsu - thanks - I'll be waving that around a work tomorrow :) ) 15:23:35 <sandro> johnlsheridan: the kind of data publishing we're doing requires provenance tracking, especially through transforms. your uses capture this well. This is important work. 15:24:25 <sandro> johnlsheridan: We've experimented with this for RDF haven't settled on a solution/approach yet. We're going to need to do much more, and quickly. 15:24:37 <sandro> yolanda: What vocabs? 15:24:49 <sandro> johnlsheridan: "Provance Vocabular" and "Open Provenance Model": 15:25:00 <sandro> q? 15:25:08 <edsu> http://purl.org/net/provenance/ ? 15:25:33 <johnlsheridan> yup 15:25:36 <sandro> yolanda: They should be somewhere on our wiki.... 15:25:36 <Daniel_Bennett> thinks we should look at Dublin Core as important to this 15:25:58 <sandro> zakim, who is here? 15:25:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Thomas, Sandro, johnlsheridan, Cory, Ken, edsu, Daniel_Bennett, Karen_Myers, George, joec, Brian (muted), ??P27, ??P31 15:26:00 <johnlsheridan> sure, dc terms, but how far do we stretch them 15:26:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see annew, joec, Karen, Daniel_Bennett, george, edsu, johnlsheridan, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, tb, ChrisBeer, hughb, trackbot, sandro 15:26:06 <Zakim> -ThomasB 15:26:19 <edsu> johnlsheridan: you work with jeni at the uk archives right? http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/133 15:26:24 <sandro> ack annew 15:26:26 <Cory> DC seems unusable, as the people are not resources 15:26:37 <johnlsheridan> Yes, Jeni is doing some work for me 15:26:57 <sandro> annew: A whole body of work of digitigal archivists from UCLA, eScience, lets have a longer conversation 15:27:03 <Daniel_Bennett> first is to promote just using Dublin Core, author, pub, license, and using permanent URLs is a good start. 15:27:17 <sandro> yolanda: talking to .... 15:27:20 <johnlsheridan> +1 Daniel 15:27:32 <joec> DDMS is a US government mil spec extending Dublin Core for governments 15:27:32 <johnlsheridan> Thanks Yolanda! 15:27:36 <ChrisBeer> @John thinking about @Daniel's comment on DC - would actually recommend you explore RDA - already mapped to DC and it will be Pubs/Archive specific 15:27:42 <annew> Annewas to escience activity at UCLA and the digital archive research 15:27:55 <annew> *Anne's reference was 15:28:01 <edsu> Daniel_Bennett: agreed 15:29:06 <annew> UCLA earlier research http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/us-interpares/ 15:29:11 <johnlsheridan> there is a really tight synergy with gov linked data 15:29:29 <sandro> Daniel_Bennett: let's just attend each other's meetings 15:29:39 <annew> InterPARES (International Project on Permanent Authentic Records in Electronic Systems) 15:30:00 <Daniel_Bennett> not just- at least 15:30:05 <sandro> yolanda: 4 overlap between Prov and HCLS; but no person overlap with eGov yet 15:31:12 <ChrisBeer> @John http://dublincore.org/groups/libraries/rda/ 15:32:27 <sandro> yolanda: first F2F probably at WWW, in North Carolina in ?April? 15:32:38 <edsu> apr 26-30 ; http://www2010.org/www/ 15:32:46 <Zakim> -Brian 15:32:46 <annew> thanks yolanda! 15:32:47 <sandro> ADJOURN <sandro> topic: After-Meeting Chatter 15:32:52 <Zakim> -KenF 15:32:53 <Zakim> -joec 15:32:53 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers 15:32:54 <Zakim> -George 15:32:54 <Zakim> -johnlsheridan 15:32:57 <Zakim> -??P31 15:32:59 <Zakim> -edsu 15:33:01 <Zakim> -Sandro 15:33:04 <Zakim> -??P27 15:33:14 <Daniel_Bennett> hmm. ok bye. 15:33:18 <edsu> :-) 15:33:20 <ChrisBeer> @John RDA takes transforms into account too I believe, in the sense that it diffs between abstract "source" and copies in any format 15:33:22 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett 15:33:36 <annew> somebody turn off the lights! bye 15:33:47 <johnlsheridan> thanks @chris 15:33:52 <Daniel_Bennett> but still on IRC. where the real convos happen ;-) 15:33:53 <edsu> ChrisBeer: my personal opinion is that it's early days for rda 15:33:55 <sandro> there is a motion sensor. they got off by themselves. :-) 15:34:11 <edsu> ChrisBeer: and it's also very library/print oriented 15:34:42 <ChrisBeer> @Sandro - "Resource Description and Access" (RDA) is a new content standard for resource description being developed on the foundations of library cataloguing practice established in the Anglo-American Cataloguing Rules (AACR). 15:34:44 <Daniel_Bennett> see link that Chris put up: http://dublincore.org/groups/libraries/rda/ 15:34:59 <edsu> sandro, it's a big tome of new international cataloging rules, that is getting expressed somewhat as rdf vocabulary by folks in the dublin core community 15:35:07 <ChrisBeer> @Sandro - basically it's new SemWeb standard focused on publications 15:35:35 <ChrisBeer> Geared towards digital content as well 15:35:49 <edsu> ChrisBeer: somewhat yes, but that's not its focus 15:36:05 <edsu> at least in my limited understanding :-) 15:38:09 <ChrisBeer> It's a big part of why they moved from MARC21 in my (also limitied) understanding. However it is definately geared towards archiving and cataloguing of any publication, so it complements other core semweb techs nicely 15:38:23 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Cory, in T&S_EGOV()9:00AM 15:38:27 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended 15:38:29 <Zakim> Attendees were +49.178.404.aaaa, Sandro, Thomas, +1.703.880.aabb, Cory, +1.703.994.aacc, johnlsheridan, edsu, Ken, Brian, Kevin, Daniel_Bennett, Karen_Myers, +1.202.690.aadd, 15:38:32 <Zakim> ... +1.202.564.aaee, joec, George, [IPcaller], +1.410.975.aaff, Brand, Jim 15:39:19 <ChrisBeer> and it lets you include webpages which makes online archival of electronic resources easy for any gov org to manage - let the librarians take care of it for you ;) 15:39:20 <Daniel_Bennett> MARC ... MODS ... Dublin Core, we should include explanation on our site. 15:39:33 <ChrisBeer> Agreed 15:40:18 <edsu> i guess it wouldn't be the first time people advocated for metadata in gov web pages :) http://dublincore.org/dcgapwiki/ 15:41:28 <ChrisBeer> Technically you have to by law here. I'm currently setting up my Depts/Ministries centralised pubs area on our site - using both our official metadata standard + RDA which gets released in 6 months or so. Bye! 15:42:26 <ChrisBeer> 2.30 am here - off to bed with me I think 15:44:01 <joec> joec has left #egov # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000355