None.
<sandro> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/TPAC_2010
<sandro> Chair: Sandro
<sandro> Present: Sandro
<sandro> Guest: Daniel (dd) Dardailler, http://www.w3.org/People/danield/, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Karen (karen) Myers, http://www.w3.org/People/domain?domain=Communications#karen%40w3.org, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Karen Burns, New Zealand State Services Commission
<sandro> Guest: Rigo Wenning, http://www.w3.org/People/Rigo/, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Roger Cutler, Chevron
<sandro> Guest: Jim Bell, HP
<sandro> Guest: Harry Halpin, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Gautier Poupeau
<sandro> Guest: Emmanuelle (emma) Bermes
<sandro> Guest: Bede McCall, MITRE Corportation
<sandro> Guest: Vagner (Vagner-br) Diniz, NIC.br
<sandro> Guest: Tim (TimBL) Berners-Lee, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Robin (darobin) Berjon
<sandro> Guest: Jose Leocadio, SERPRO (Brazilian Federal Agency of Information Technology)
<sandro> Guest: Thomas Roessler, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Ralph Swick, W3C
<sandro> Guest: Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi Corporation
<sandro> Guest: Ibrahima NGOM, Ecole Superieure Polytechnique
<sandro> Guest: David Rogers, WAC
<sandro> topic: Background of eGov at W3C
07:49:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-irc ←
07:50:00 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make log public ←
07:50:07 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
07:50:07 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-irc#T07-50-07
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-irc#T07-50-07 ←
07:50:28 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
07:50:28 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is ←
07:50:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, sandro, karen, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, sandro, karen, trackbot ←
08:06:58 <sandro> dd: 2005 network of offices
(No events recorded for 16 minutes)
Daniel Dardailler: 2005 network of offices [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:07:11 <sandro> dd: PSI directive in EU
Daniel Dardailler: PSI directive in EU [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:07:33 <sandro> dd: JoseMa ctic had funding to start this activity
Daniel Dardailler: JoseMa ctic had funding to start this activity [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:07:56 <sandro> dd: document sept 2005, me and rigo
Daniel Dardailler: document sept 2005, me and rigo [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:08:25 <sandro> dd: 2007 asturias workshop to launch activity/group
Daniel Dardailler: 2007 asturias workshop to launch activity/group [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:09:03 <sandro> dd: internet governance forum, PSI directive, a lot of resources
Daniel Dardailler: internet governance forum, PSI directive, a lot of resources [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:09:30 <sandro> dd: workship in Vilnius, 3 weeks ago
Daniel Dardailler: workship in Vilnius, 3 weeks ago [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:09:48 <sandro> dd: culture of some countries, to keep info closed.
Daniel Dardailler: culture of some countries, to keep info closed. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:11:03 <sandro> dd: tried to get bicycle accident info for my town in France
Daniel Dardailler: tried to get bicycle accident info for my town in France [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:12:03 <sandro> dd: they're sending it on paper
Daniel Dardailler: they're sending it on paper [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:12:10 <sandro> dd: !
Daniel Dardailler: ! [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:12:40 <sandro> karen: in W3C we're normally pulled; in this case it seems like push -- govts are often very resistant.
Karen Myers: in W3C we're normally pulled; in this case it seems like push -- govts are often very resistant. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:13:06 <sandro> karen: A few weeks ago, Tim was invited to speek at Harvard, Kennedy School
Karen Myers: A few weeks ago, Tim was invited to speek at Harvard, Kennedy School [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:13:24 <sandro> karen: Mostly older professors, steeped in govt history
Karen Myers: Mostly older professors, steeped in govt history [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:13:39 <sandro> karen: ... but they didn't even know basic things, eg twitter
Karen Myers: ... but they didn't even know basic things, eg twitter [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:13:55 <sandro> karen: ... some folks had a nice openness to understand
Karen Myers: ... some folks had a nice openness to understand [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:14:07 <sandro> karen: ... push that has to get done
Karen Myers: ... push that has to get done [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:14:26 <sandro> karen: Where can W3C focus?
Karen Myers: Where can W3C focus? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:17:47 <karen> scribenick: Karen
(Scribe set to Karen Myers)
08:18:50 <karen> Topic: Sandro Reviews http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/
08:19:07 <karen> Organized in five main topics
Organized in five main topics ←
08:19:16 <karen> 1. Participation and Cititzen Engagement
1. Participation and Cititzen Engagement ←
08:19:31 <karen> key point to allow public servants to use public Web sites
key point to allow public servants to use public Web sites ←
08:20:17 <karen> http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/
http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/ ←
08:20:33 <sandro> these slides: http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/1101-egov/
Sandro Hawke: these slides: http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/1101-egov/ ←
08:21:09 <karen> Sandro: this document points out things that planners need to understand
Sandro Hawke: this document points out things that planners need to understand ←
08:21:19 <karen> may be obious to some, but not to those who are new
may be obious to some, but not to those who are new ←
08:21:33 <karen> Rigo: tax declaration system in France
Rigo Wenning: tax declaration system in France ←
08:21:58 <karen> ...challenge with massive scaling in gov't sector
...challenge with massive scaling in gov't sector ←
08:22:10 <karen> ...can overwhelm your servers
...can overwhelm your servers ←
08:22:37 <karen> Roger Cutler: you should talk to the "Dancing with the Stars" show
Roger Cutler: you should talk to the "Dancing with the Stars" show ←
08:22:45 <karen> ...they had public voting that overwhelmed the system
...they had public voting that overwhelmed the system ←
08:22:55 <karen> ...not sure what they did to overcome it
...not sure what they did to overcome it ←
08:23:02 <karen> Rigo: Cloud computing is so important to eGov
Rigo Wenning: Cloud computing is so important to eGov ←
08:23:10 <karen> ...so you can start small and scale quickly
...so you can start small and scale quickly ←
08:23:24 <karen> ...private industry support will be important
...private industry support will be important ←
08:23:33 <sandro> agenda+ cloud computing,
Sandro Hawke: agenda+ cloud computing, ←
08:23:58 <karen> Sandro: traditional mechanisms of getting comments from the public have not scaled in the past
Sandro Hawke: traditional mechanisms of getting comments from the public have not scaled in the past ←
08:24:07 <karen> ...Web makes it easier for public to comment on public policies
...Web makes it easier for public to comment on public policies ←
08:24:52 <karen> 2. Participation and Engagement Issues
2. Participation and Engagement Issues ←
08:25:37 <karen> Sandro: challenges for what gov't employees can and cannot do; what roles and persona they may take on
Sandro Hawke: challenges for what gov't employees can and cannot do; what roles and persona they may take on ←
08:25:44 <karen> ...how to use social networking
...how to use social networking ←
08:26:04 <karen> ...what are fora for asking authoritative questions
...what are fora for asking authoritative questions ←
08:26:14 <karen> ...data portability; archiving
...data portability; archiving ←
08:26:19 <karen> ...lots of big questions
...lots of big questions ←
08:26:31 <karen> Second big issues was Open Gov't Data
Second big issues was Open Gov't Data ←
08:26:53 <karen> ...this section was written 1.5 years ago
...this section was written 1.5 years ago ←
08:27:02 <karen> q+
q+ ←
08:28:36 <karen> ...not particularly focused about various technologies
...not particularly focused about various technologies ←
08:28:38 <karen> ack Karen
ack Karen ←
08:28:53 <karen> Karen: one reason for that was main message was "please use standard technologies in gov't
Karen Myers: one reason for that was main message was "please use standard technologies in gov't ←
08:29:30 <karen> and also many different levels of experience regarding use of Semantic Web technologies, XML, HTML, etc.
and also many different levels of experience regarding use of Semantic Web technologies, XML, HTML, etc. ←
08:29:44 <karen> Sandro: other issues are limitations of gov't employees to participate
Sandro Hawke: other issues are limitations of gov't employees to participate ←
08:29:54 <karen> Third Part was Interoperability
Third Part was Interoperability ←
08:30:10 <karen> ...concept of interoperability in time
...concept of interoperability in time ←
08:30:15 <karen> ...big thing is using open standards
...big thing is using open standards ←
08:30:53 <karen> Rigo: EU Interoperability Framework uses a definition
Rigo Wenning: EU Interoperability Framework uses a definition ←
08:30:57 <karen> ...that fits W3C pretty well
...that fits W3C pretty well ←
08:31:03 <karen> ...but other groups did not
...but other groups did not ←
08:31:14 <karen> ...took lobbyists a couple years to get that off the agenda
...took lobbyists a couple years to get that off the agenda ←
08:31:25 <karen> ...We fit the EIF1 definition of Open Standards
...We fit the EIF1 definition of Open Standards ←
08:31:44 <karen> Sandro: another technique is to use open source to promote interoperability
Sandro Hawke: another technique is to use open source to promote interoperability ←
08:31:51 <karen> Rogerc: Why? I don't understand it
Roger Cutler: Why? I don't understand it ←
08:32:00 <karen> Rigo: let me explain that from a larger perspective
Rigo Wenning: let me explain that from a larger perspective ←
08:32:14 <karen> ...EU point of view since I was involved in work here
...EU point of view since I was involved in work here ←
08:32:36 <karen> ...For example one village acquired some development software
...For example one village acquired some development software ←
08:32:40 <karen> ...then made it open source
...then made it open source ←
08:32:56 <karen> ...the mayors of various cities would meet and describe same problem
...the mayors of various cities would meet and describe same problem ←
08:33:05 <karen> ...and suggested they use open source solution
...and suggested they use open source solution ←
08:33:10 <karen> ...this was a strong trend
...this was a strong trend ←
08:33:25 <karen> ...so they realized they could tailor things more effectively
...so they realized they could tailor things more effectively ←
08:33:38 <karen> ...so it built the rumor that open source is good with eGov
...so it built the rumor that open source is good with eGov ←
08:33:48 <karen> Rogerc: so it has nothing to do with interoperability
Roger Cutler: so it has nothing to do with interoperability ←
08:34:11 <karen> Rigo: correct; there is a large understanding that open source meant to these towns and villages to get things done
Rigo Wenning: correct; there is a large understanding that open source meant to these towns and villages to get things done ←
08:34:29 <karen> Jim: non-technical people don't understand difference
Jim Bell: non-technical people don't understand difference ←
08:34:34 <karen> ...between open standards and open source
...between open standards and open source ←
08:34:35 <sandro> agenda+ open source
Sandro Hawke: agenda+ open source ←
08:34:45 <karen> ...some of non-technical people include the high-level policy makers
...some of non-technical people include the high-level policy makers ←
08:35:01 <karen> ...don't know difference between open standards and open source
...don't know difference between open standards and open source ←
08:35:07 <karen> ...As Roger pointed out, it's a myth
...As Roger pointed out, it's a myth ←
08:35:16 <karen> ...if you allow customization, it's a virtue
...if you allow customization, it's a virtue ←
08:35:22 <karen> ...but it pushes against interoperability
...but it pushes against interoperability ←
08:35:26 <karen> ...it's a complicated question
...it's a complicated question ←
08:35:36 <karen> ...has to be looked at on a case by case basis
...has to be looked at on a case by case basis ←
08:35:43 <karen> ...We should make the case about open standards
...We should make the case about open standards ←
08:35:58 <karen> Sandro: in this report there is a page and a half on open standards and a little on open source
Sandro Hawke: in this report there is a page and a half on open standards and a little on open source ←
08:36:11 <karen> Rogerc: I think W3C should not endorse open source vs. vendor products
Roger Cutler: I think W3C should not endorse open source vs. vendor products ←
08:36:17 <karen> ...there are real problems with open source
...there are real problems with open source ←
08:36:26 <karen> Jim: really not a question about open source
Jim Bell: really not a question about open source ←
08:36:41 <karen> ...I am responsible for open source and open standards across HP
...I am responsible for open source and open standards across HP ←
08:36:54 <karen> ...no gov't could decide only to buy proprietary
...no gov't could decide only to buy proprietary ←
08:37:04 <karen> ...it's a development methodology, not an alternative to open standards
...it's a development methodology, not an alternative to open standards ←
08:37:13 <karen> Rigo: the big fight is about what is open
Rigo Wenning: the big fight is about what is open ←
08:37:24 <karen> ...after EIF shifted their definition
...after EIF shifted their definition ←
08:37:41 <karen> ...like example of CRM being relabeled identity management
...like example of CRM being relabeled identity management ←
08:37:49 <karen> ...then everything became "open" term
...then everything became "open" term ←
08:38:03 <karen> ..."open" now meaningless because it's the latest cool term
..."open" now meaningless because it's the latest cool term ←
08:38:11 <karen> ...everybody claims to be open
...everybody claims to be open ←
08:38:18 <karen> ...but maybe we should develop criteria for that
...but maybe we should develop criteria for that ←
08:38:18 <sandro> rigo: Everybody claims to be open now
Rigo Wenning: Everybody claims to be open now [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
08:38:33 <karen> Rogerc: and we have something called "Open Spirit" a proprietary software
Roger Cutler: and we have something called "Open Spirit" a proprietary software ←
08:38:48 <karen> Vagner Diniz: it's not wrong to say we can find more friendly people
Vagner Diniz: it's not wrong to say we can find more friendly people ←
08:39:06 <karen> ...among open standards rather than proprietary community
...among open standards rather than proprietary community ←
08:39:11 <karen> ...idea is not to advocate open source
...idea is not to advocate open source ←
08:39:16 <karen> ...but we should advocate open standards
...but we should advocate open standards ←
08:39:32 <karen> ...in terms of awareness we can find more friendly people in the open source community; they are more helpful for us
...in terms of awareness we can find more friendly people in the open source community; they are more helpful for us ←
08:39:43 <karen> Daniel: open source and open standards are not the same, yes
Daniel Dardailler: open source and open standards are not the same, yes ←
08:39:57 <karen> ...Open source people do like us because we give them open standards which are free
...Open source people do like us because we give them open standards which are free ←
08:40:07 <karen> ...whether or not open source is good in and of itself
...whether or not open source is good in and of itself ←
08:40:12 <karen> ...as a way to develop software
...as a way to develop software ←
08:40:16 <karen> ...free software
...free software ←
08:40:23 <karen> ...is a philosophy
...is a philosophy ←
08:40:31 <karen> ...sharing programming is hard
...sharing programming is hard ←
08:40:38 <karen> ...some W3C people come from this community
...some W3C people come from this community ←
08:41:03 <karen> ...saying it's just a development methodology may offend some
...saying it's just a development methodology may offend some ←
08:41:38 <karen> Gautier Poupeau: different question with exposed data
Gautier Poupeau: different question with exposed data ←
08:41:47 <karen> ...we can make interoperability with data
...we can make interoperability with data ←
08:41:51 <karen> ...and open source data
...and open source data ←
08:41:55 <karen> ...but that is not the key point
...but that is not the key point ←
08:42:21 <karen> Rogerc: I was just commenting on promoting interoperability and open source
Roger Cutler: I was just commenting on promoting interoperability and open source ←
08:42:30 <karen> Rigo: It's a how on promoting eGov and open data
Rigo Wenning: It's a how on promoting eGov and open data ←
08:42:42 <karen> ...open source is often used as a pre-cursor with low investment development
...open source is often used as a pre-cursor with low investment development ←
08:42:51 <karen> ...before doing a commercial product
...before doing a commercial product ←
08:43:13 <karen> ...there is this aspect that leads to this kind of assertion, but we have to disambiguate the assertion
...there is this aspect that leads to this kind of assertion, but we have to disambiguate the assertion ←
08:43:26 <karen> Jim: I think this is a good topic; we are not wasting time
Jim Bell: I think this is a good topic; we are not wasting time ←
08:43:35 <karen> ...It is true the open source and open standards community overlap
...It is true the open source and open standards community overlap ←
08:43:39 <karen> ...maybe a stepping pointt
...maybe a stepping pointt ←
08:43:46 <sandro> agenda+ relationship between open standards and open source
Sandro Hawke: agenda+ relationship between open standards and open source ←
08:43:52 <karen> ...is what people really want is royalty free
...is what people really want is royalty free ←
08:44:06 <karen> ...RAND is the default rather than W3C RF
...RAND is the default rather than W3C RF ←
08:44:14 <karen> ...open source can be misleading
...open source can be misleading ←
08:44:20 <karen> ...it is under a license
...it is under a license ←
08:44:26 <karen> ...HP supports 600 licenses
...HP supports 600 licenses ←
08:44:39 <karen> ...to really follow all those and administrate them is big
...to really follow all those and administrate them is big ←
08:44:54 <karen> ...cannot just take your program and hand it to the people in the next village
...cannot just take your program and hand it to the people in the next village ←
08:44:59 <karen> ...In terms of Linked Data
...In terms of Linked Data ←
08:45:05 <karen> ...there have been contraints
...there have been contraints ←
08:45:09 <karen> ...one of major ones is Privacy
...one of major ones is Privacy ←
08:45:21 <karen> ...EU has stricter rules
...EU has stricter rules ←
08:45:53 <karen> ...Different and sometimes conflicting rules about tracking, destroying storing data
...Different and sometimes conflicting rules about tracking, destroying storing data ←
08:46:00 <karen> ...Identity for some is heart of security
...Identity for some is heart of security ←
08:46:08 <karen> ...different ways to protect identity will show up
...different ways to protect identity will show up ←
08:46:18 <karen> ...many issues will face on open source side
...many issues will face on open source side ←
08:46:26 <karen> Rogerc: Open source is also not risk free
Roger Cutler: Open source is also not risk free ←
08:46:43 <karen> ...why organizations like mine feel good about use of W3C standards because they are relatively risk fee
...why organizations like mine feel good about use of W3C standards because they are relatively risk fee ←
08:46:52 <karen> ...they have been rung out and vetted
...they have been rung out and vetted ←
08:46:58 <karen> ...there are may patent trolls
...there are may patent trolls ←
08:47:33 <karen> [Roger describes example of patent vulnerability in open source]
[Roger describes example of patent vulnerability in open source] ←
08:48:01 <karen> ...I think open source is big risk for a company like ours
...I think open source is big risk for a company like ours ←
08:48:20 <karen> ...risk factors from W3C are very different from Open Source
...risk factors from W3C are very different from Open Source ←
08:48:34 <karen> Harry Halpin: I am working in social and identity space for W3C
Harry Halpin: I am working in social and identity space for W3C ←
08:48:41 <karen> ...we are trying to follow US gov't work
...we are trying to follow US gov't work ←
08:48:49 <karen> ...I would be interested in hearing from people
...I would be interested in hearing from people ←
08:48:58 <karen> ...Identity is important to eGov
...Identity is important to eGov ←
08:49:06 <karen> ...and it's historically an area of patents
...and it's historically an area of patents ←
08:49:26 <karen> ...Going back to 1998, P3P
...Going back to 1998, P3P ←
08:49:33 <karen> ...importance of RF standards
...importance of RF standards ←
08:49:41 <karen> ...we need to identify areas that are crucial
...we need to identify areas that are crucial ←
08:49:47 <karen> ...there are vastly different requirements
...there are vastly different requirements ←
08:49:54 <karen> ...and make sure baseline core standards are RF
...and make sure baseline core standards are RF ←
08:50:00 <karen> ...and can be implemented
...and can be implemented ←
08:50:22 <karen> ...a bit of a weakness; so I'm interested to hear what eGov people think of the identity space
...a bit of a weakness; so I'm interested to hear what eGov people think of the identity space ←
08:50:31 <karen> Daniel: what I have been looking at for eGov
Daniel Dardailler: what I have been looking at for eGov ←
08:50:34 <karen> ...is about access
...is about access ←
08:50:41 <karen> ...you want what you have paid for back
...you want what you have paid for back ←
08:50:49 <karen> ...I don't want my identity in this process
...I don't want my identity in this process ←
08:50:55 <karen> ...I want to make use of the data I paid for
...I want to make use of the data I paid for ←
08:51:04 <karen> ...not interaction with gov't that I paid my tax
...not interaction with gov't that I paid my tax ←
08:51:10 <karen> ...but another eGov platform area
...but another eGov platform area ←
08:51:37 <karen> Harry: there is another realm of applications for clinical health records that needs identity assurance
Harry Halpin: there is another realm of applications for clinical health records that needs identity assurance ←
08:51:43 <karen> Rogerc: there is something here
Roger Cutler: there is something here ←
08:51:56 <karen> ...thinking about the person who asked Daniel for his physical address
...thinking about the person who asked Daniel for his physical address ←
08:52:17 <karen> ...perhaps people are unwilling to send something that could be altered electronically
...perhaps people are unwilling to send something that could be altered electronically ←
08:52:28 <karen> ...our company still sends me PDFs to sign and send back
...our company still sends me PDFs to sign and send back ←
08:52:34 <karen> ...because they don't trust it
...because they don't trust it ←
08:52:41 <karen> ...there is a huge element of not just making technology work
...there is a huge element of not just making technology work ←
08:52:52 <karen> ..but getting people to understand that it does work and get them to trust
..but getting people to understand that it does work and get them to trust ←
08:53:03 <karen> Rigo: I have been involved in EU since 1995
Rigo Wenning: I have been involved in EU since 1995 ←
08:53:13 <karen> ...today you can do ID electronically
...today you can do ID electronically ←
08:53:22 <karen> ...but IT guys saw business opportunity
...but IT guys saw business opportunity ←
08:53:42 <karen> ...but it doesn't take into account the user
...but it doesn't take into account the user ←
08:53:46 <karen> Jim: coming back to patents
Jim Bell: coming back to patents ←
08:53:57 <karen> ...W3C is not immune from patent trolls
...W3C is not immune from patent trolls ←
08:54:06 <karen> ...trolls can also attack W3C standards
...trolls can also attack W3C standards ←
08:54:12 <karen> ...but you want someone to back it up
...but you want someone to back it up ←
08:54:23 <karen> ...and Open Source community is not set up to provide that guarantee
...and Open Source community is not set up to provide that guarantee ←
08:54:25 <karen> ...on the other side
...on the other side ←
08:54:36 <karen> ...Open Source benefits from thorough W3C vetting
...Open Source benefits from thorough W3C vetting ←
08:54:52 <karen> ...and many eyes on code are best way to find flaws on code or algorim
...and many eyes on code are best way to find flaws on code or algorim ←
08:55:08 <karen> ...so even though Open Source is exposed, it may be more secure due to number of people using it
...so even though Open Source is exposed, it may be more secure due to number of people using it ←
08:55:21 <karen> Sandro: Last topic in report was interoperability frameworks
Sandro Hawke: Last topic in report was interoperability frameworks ←
08:55:27 <karen> ...I was not sure about this
...I was not sure about this ←
08:55:34 <karen> Rigo: I can give a short presentation about that
Rigo Wenning: I can give a short presentation about that ←
08:55:44 <karen> Sandro: how about two sentences
Sandro Hawke: how about two sentences ←
08:56:00 <karen> Rigo: We have a large discussion about this topic with EU
Rigo Wenning: We have a large discussion about this topic with EU ←
08:56:10 <karen> ...they developed a framework
...they developed a framework ←
08:56:19 <karen> ...EU is not like US Federal gov't
...EU is not like US Federal gov't ←
08:56:42 <karen> ...from inside EU , it's still 27 countries cooperating
...from inside EU , it's still 27 countries cooperating ←
08:56:53 <karen> ...focus on how those gov'ts send messages to each other
...focus on how those gov'ts send messages to each other ←
08:57:22 <karen> ...it is a big area needing procedures
...it is a big area needing procedures ←
08:57:27 <karen> ...needed to understand data
...needed to understand data ←
08:57:35 <karen> ...They started to exchange XML Schema
...They started to exchange XML Schema ←
08:57:43 <karen> ...each gov't had its own schema store
...each gov't had its own schema store ←
08:58:01 <karen> ...Questions about which models to use, how to find them
...Questions about which models to use, how to find them ←
08:58:18 <karen> ...For example, we may give local, regional or nat'l gov'ts information
...For example, we may give local, regional or nat'l gov'ts information ←
08:58:21 <karen> ...about what others due
...about what others due ←
08:58:33 <karen> ...European Interoperabilty Framework (EIF)
...European Interoperabilty Framework (EIF) ←
08:58:37 <karen> ...was developed
...was developed ←
08:59:00 <karen> ...same people who developed the open standards definition
...same people who developed the open standards definition ←
08:59:12 <karen> ...I did an interoperabilty analysis for egov for them
...I did an interoperabilty analysis for egov for them ←
08:59:18 <karen> ...I came up with three levels we take into account
...I came up with three levels we take into account ←
08:59:30 <karen> ...First is syntactical; exchange of XML schema
...First is syntactical; exchange of XML schema ←
08:59:34 <karen> ...second one is semantic
...second one is semantic ←
08:59:47 <karen> ...still have procedural constraints
...still have procedural constraints ←
08:59:55 <karen> ...so has to be procedural interoperability
...so has to be procedural interoperability ←
09:00:01 <karen> ...and this is hardest to do
...and this is hardest to do ←
09:00:13 <karen> ...Current frameworks only touch on schema interoperability
...Current frameworks only touch on schema interoperability ←
09:00:35 <karen> ...Linked Open data is a large test on whether we can achieve interoperability on intra and inter-gov't data
...Linked Open data is a large test on whether we can achieve interoperability on intra and inter-gov't data ←
09:00:50 <karen> ...It's for them a concrete problem how to exchange data between them
...It's for them a concrete problem how to exchange data between them ←
09:00:53 <karen> ...have constraints
...have constraints ←
09:01:03 <karen> ...just cannot send things from one dept to another
...just cannot send things from one dept to another ←
09:01:09 <karen> ...gov't has to constrain itself
...gov't has to constrain itself ←
09:01:15 <karen> ...there are walls
...there are walls ←
09:01:23 <karen> ...this interoperability frameworks touches on them
...this interoperability frameworks touches on them ←
09:01:28 <karen> ...also touches on rules for procurement
...also touches on rules for procurement ←
09:01:40 <karen> ...Procurement is an important level for gov'ts to achieve what they want
...Procurement is an important level for gov'ts to achieve what they want ←
09:01:44 <karen> ...versus what the vendors want
...versus what the vendors want ←
09:01:59 <karen> Jim: I think the term interoperability frameworks is a high-level term, like APIs
Jim Bell: I think the term interoperability frameworks is a high-level term, like APIs ←
09:02:12 <karen> ...would be a mistake to read too much into it
...would be a mistake to read too much into it ←
09:02:17 <karen> ...somehow exchange data
...somehow exchange data ←
09:02:23 <karen> ...I am chair of board of the Open Group
...I am chair of board of the Open Group ←
09:02:42 <karen> ...50 states had data set up differently for example
...50 states had data set up differently for example ←
09:02:53 <karen> ...they got together to develop a common framework
...they got together to develop a common framework ←
09:03:03 <karen> ...so applications sold to schools could use that same framewok
...so applications sold to schools could use that same framewok ←
09:03:10 <karen> ...in that case it's an XML framework
...in that case it's an XML framework ←
09:03:15 <karen> ...simple, does the job
...simple, does the job ←
09:03:26 <karen> ...for good or ill, it has been put in legislation as a matter of law
...for good or ill, it has been put in legislation as a matter of law ←
09:03:40 <karen> ...works well enough that other places are starting to implement it as well
...works well enough that other places are starting to implement it as well ←
09:03:51 <karen> ...Schools Interoperability Framework (SIF)
...Schools Interoperability Framework (SIF) ←
09:03:53 <sandro> "Schools Interoperability Framework"
Sandro Hawke: "Schools Interoperability Framework" ←
09:04:03 <karen> ...We can talk about them, but need to speak more generally
...We can talk about them, but need to speak more generally ←
09:04:19 <karen> Rogerc: So I am hearing that interoperabilty farmework is a rationalization of open standards
Roger Cutler: So I am hearing that interoperabilty farmework is a rationalization of open standards ←
09:04:30 <karen> Jim: developed from Microsoft
Jim Bell: developed from Microsoft ←
09:04:47 <karen> Karen Burns: I am queen of interoperabilty framework for New Zealand gov't
Karen Burns: I am queen of interoperabilty framework for New Zealand gov't ←
09:04:58 <karen> ...from end to end, procurement, how we use tech
...from end to end, procurement, how we use tech ←
09:05:08 <karen> ...I have to transform siloed agencies to collaborate
...I have to transform siloed agencies to collaborate ←
09:05:18 <karen> ...globally these things have been focused on technical standards
...globally these things have been focused on technical standards ←
09:05:24 <karen> ...if it's open it reduces my cost
...if it's open it reduces my cost ←
09:05:31 <karen> Rogerc: I would call it information architecture
Roger Cutler: I would call it information architecture ←
09:05:40 <karen> Karen: for us it wraps everything together
Karen Myers: for us it wraps everything together ←
09:05:50 <karen> Sandro: What I heard IF is the way you cross the silos
Sandro Hawke: What I heard IF is the way you cross the silos ←
09:05:56 <karen> Karen: policy, standards, processes
Karen Myers: policy, standards, processes ←
09:06:01 <karen> ...things are maturing now
...things are maturing now ←
09:06:09 <karen> ...I am playing now in the transformational side
...I am playing now in the transformational side ←
09:06:13 <karen> ...legal and policies to change things
...legal and policies to change things ←
09:06:25 <karen> Gautier: I think there are different levels for interoperability
Gautier Poupeau: I think there are different levels for interoperability ←
09:06:35 <karen> ...Semantic Web is an interoperabilty framework
...Semantic Web is an interoperabilty framework ←
09:06:44 <karen> ...Rigo explained that it's more semantic global
...Rigo explained that it's more semantic global ←
09:06:51 <karen> ...we have to explain this different lower level
...we have to explain this different lower level ←
09:06:55 <karen> ...of frameworks
...of frameworks ←
09:07:07 <karen> ...for example, first you have RDF, the OWL
...for example, first you have RDF, the OWL ←
09:07:26 <karen> Sandro: There are different ways of breaking that down
Sandro Hawke: There are different ways of breaking that down ←
09:07:34 <karen> Daniel: so regarding interoperability
Daniel Dardailler: so regarding interoperability ←
09:07:41 <karen> ...I found a license I would have to sign
...I found a license I would have to sign ←
09:07:48 <karen> ...to use this software
...to use this software ←
09:07:56 <karen> ...license is asking me, if I have an application
...license is asking me, if I have an application ←
09:08:01 <karen> ...based on data the gov't gave me
...based on data the gov't gave me ←
09:08:07 <karen> ...that whenever the gov't updates the data
...that whenever the gov't updates the data ←
09:08:14 <karen> ...then I have to update my site
...then I have to update my site ←
09:08:22 <karen> ...so that's how far we go into interoperability
...so that's how far we go into interoperability ←
09:08:28 <karen> ...if you operate something you have to do it well
...if you operate something you have to do it well ←
09:08:42 <karen> ...It does not prevent that you have to use open standards
...It does not prevent that you have to use open standards ←
09:08:47 <karen> Rigo: We had that problem
Rigo Wenning: We had that problem ←
09:08:55 <karen> ...for a very long time I was lobbying to have laws
...for a very long time I was lobbying to have laws ←
09:09:00 <karen> free online
free online ←
09:09:09 <karen> ...From Journal Officiel
...From Journal Officiel ←
09:09:13 <karen> ...they got commercial entitty
...they got commercial entitty ←
09:09:22 <karen> ...prepared ready to go database on a military service
...prepared ready to go database on a military service ←
09:09:40 <karen> ...and just by doing this they earned 6 million francs per year
...and just by doing this they earned 6 million francs per year ←
09:09:51 <karen> ...If your application doesn't reflect the law
...If your application doesn't reflect the law ←
09:09:59 <karen> ...so they must force you to update your stuff
...so they must force you to update your stuff ←
09:10:14 <karen> Daniel: if not interoperabilty through open standard
Daniel Dardailler: if not interoperabilty through open standard ←
09:10:25 <karen> ...one day for another they could switch XML syntax
...one day for another they could switch XML syntax ←
09:10:31 <karen> Sandro: So one question
Sandro Hawke: So one question ←
09:10:44 <karen> ...what is the difference between interoperability and open gov't data?
...what is the difference between interoperability and open gov't data? ←
09:10:53 <karen> Rigo: There is a large overlap
Rigo Wenning: There is a large overlap ←
09:10:58 <karen> Karen: that is a whole other discussion
Karen Myers: that is a whole other discussion ←
09:11:12 <karen> Rigo: Take the UK example of when they released tons of data
Rigo Wenning: Take the UK example of when they released tons of data ←
09:11:21 <karen> ...they correlated the crime and geolocation data
...they correlated the crime and geolocation data ←
09:11:24 <karen> ...also complaint data
...also complaint data ←
09:11:29 <karen> ...local mayors and villages
...local mayors and villages ←
09:11:37 <karen> ...in areas where you had an idiot who complained a lot
...in areas where you had an idiot who complained a lot ←
09:11:45 <karen> ...the price of your house was half what it was before
...the price of your house was half what it was before ←
09:11:52 <karen> ...because people were thinking it was a bad area
...because people were thinking it was a bad area ←
09:11:59 <karen> ...from complaints about noise or theft
...from complaints about noise or theft ←
09:12:25 <karen> Rogerc: in a highly regulated industry, we must provide gov't with a lot of data
Roger Cutler: in a highly regulated industry, we must provide gov't with a lot of data ←
09:12:34 <karen> ...mixed up with gov't standards
...mixed up with gov't standards ←
09:12:43 <karen> Sandro: A clear definition for interoperabilty
Sandro Hawke: A clear definition for interoperabilty ←
09:13:01 <karen> Emmanuelle: I see it around domains
Emmanuelle Bermes: I see it around domains ←
09:13:18 <karen> ...a certain level of interoperabilty to exchange in a bounded domain
...a certain level of interoperabilty to exchange in a bounded domain ←
09:13:34 <karen> ...have to define constraints that are domain specific
...have to define constraints that are domain specific ←
09:13:41 <karen> Gautier: there are other issues
Gautier Poupeau: there are other issues ←
09:13:44 <karen> ...like archiving
...like archiving ←
09:13:47 <karen> ...Private data
...Private data ←
09:14:08 <karen> ...you have to have data to think about archiving it, even if not public
...you have to have data to think about archiving it, even if not public ←
09:14:16 <karen> ...yet have to think about archiving issues
...yet have to think about archiving issues ←
09:14:28 <karen> ...have to think about interoperability of data in data preservation
...have to think about interoperability of data in data preservation ←
09:14:46 <karen> Yosuke: We are talking about Interoperabilty Frameworks and Interoperabilty
Yosuke Funahashi: We are talking about Interoperabilty Frameworks and Interoperabilty ←
09:14:58 <karen> ...IF is broader term
...IF is broader term ←
09:15:04 <karen> ...covers mapping and procedural aspects
...covers mapping and procedural aspects ←
09:15:15 <karen> ...there is also possibility to extend interoperabilty
...there is also possibility to extend interoperabilty ←
09:15:22 <karen> ...semantics, culture are different
...semantics, culture are different ←
09:15:28 <karen> ...can exchange data
...can exchange data ←
09:15:39 <karen> ...IF is something will be the premise for
...IF is something will be the premise for ←
09:15:47 <karen> ...cooperatively working with gov't
...cooperatively working with gov't ←
09:15:59 <karen> Daniel: What I have seen in past couple of years
Daniel Dardailler: What I have seen in past couple of years ←
09:16:05 <karen> ...with work TimBL is doing
...with work TimBL is doing ←
09:16:08 <karen> ...more on policy side
...more on policy side ←
09:16:14 <karen> ...gov't making data open for free
...gov't making data open for free ←
09:16:25 <karen> ...assumption of geeks is we will make something out of the data
...assumption of geeks is we will make something out of the data ←
09:16:30 <karen> ...there is a change in spirit
...there is a change in spirit ←
09:16:40 <karen> ...do something useful and we will make sense of it
...do something useful and we will make sense of it ←
09:16:48 <karen> ...there is a change I think
...there is a change I think ←
09:17:10 <karen> Vagner: interoperability is more realted to policy, rules, architecture that provide conditions to data exchange or application exchagne
Vagner Diniz: interoperability is more realted to policy, rules, architecture that provide conditions to data exchange or application exchagne ←
09:17:23 <karen> ...Open data is one way to faiclitate interoperability; not the only way
...Open data is one way to faiclitate interoperability; not the only way ←
09:17:38 <karen> Jim: Looking down stream, I think the term open data
Jim Bell: Looking down stream, I think the term open data ←
09:17:38 <sandro> Vagner-br: open data as one way to get interoperablity
Vagner Diniz: open data as one way to get interoperablity [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
09:17:43 <karen> ...is going to lead to problems
...is going to lead to problems ←
09:17:50 <karen> ...may interpret it as public data
...may interpret it as public data ←
09:18:11 <karen> ...in Norway, open public data is what their individual income and taxes are
...in Norway, open public data is what their individual income and taxes are ←
09:18:26 <karen> ...may not be the same with other gov'ts
...may not be the same with other gov'ts ←
09:18:37 <karen> ...we will need to have terminolofy that people will understand clearly
...we will need to have terminolofy that people will understand clearly ←
09:18:47 <karen> ...if people around this table are having trouble with distinctions
...if people around this table are having trouble with distinctions ←
09:18:54 <karen> ...the legislators and public will have trouble, too
...the legislators and public will have trouble, too ←
09:18:57 <karen> Karen: second that
Karen Myers: second that ←
09:19:15 <karen> Sandro: In the IG note they define open gov't data and public sector info as synonymous
Sandro Hawke: In the IG note they define open gov't data and public sector info as synonymous ←
09:19:26 <karen> Rigo: yes
Rigo Wenning: yes ←
09:19:31 <karen> ...I would not overload the term
...I would not overload the term ←
09:19:47 <karen> ...what we mean is this is data that you can get from the gov't without forcing them by court
...what we mean is this is data that you can get from the gov't without forcing them by court ←
09:19:57 <karen> ...we can extend in light of Daniel's experience
...we can extend in light of Daniel's experience ←
09:20:04 <karen> ...we may mean it's in digital format
...we may mean it's in digital format ←
09:20:11 <karen> ...and avoid the paper route
...and avoid the paper route ←
09:20:18 <karen> ...which they are capable of doing
...which they are capable of doing ←
09:20:26 <karen> ...so I think it's what is available publicly
...so I think it's what is available publicly ←
09:20:39 <karen> Daniel: public sector info is not the same thing as open data
Daniel Dardailler: public sector info is not the same thing as open data ←
09:20:45 <karen> Rogerc: I just did some Google searches
Roger Cutler: I just did some Google searches ←
09:20:54 <karen> ...I convinced myself that interoperability framework
...I convinced myself that interoperability framework ←
09:21:04 <karen> ...does not have a widely accepted defnition
...does not have a widely accepted defnition ←
09:21:20 <karen> ...first reference is to the Estonian Interoperability Framework
...first reference is to the Estonian Interoperability Framework ←
09:21:34 <karen> Rigo: That is not surprising; the Estonians and Austrians were the first in this area
Rigo Wenning: That is not surprising; the Estonians and Austrians were the first in this area ←
09:21:57 <karen> Rogerc: suggest that you define it clearly
Roger Cutler: suggest that you define it clearly ←
09:22:02 <karen> Karen: it means nothing right now
Karen Myers: it means nothing right now ←
09:22:08 <karen> Rigo: a catch-all
Rigo Wenning: a catch-all ←
09:22:16 <karen> Daniel: One remark is that eGov activity
Daniel Dardailler: One remark is that eGov activity ←
09:22:23 <karen> ...reminds of beginning of WAI
...reminds of beginning of WAI ←
09:22:30 <karen> ...it was clear that we needed several groups
...it was clear that we needed several groups ←
09:22:37 <karen> ...Education and Outreach to agree on terms
...Education and Outreach to agree on terms ←
09:22:45 <karen> ...technical groups, one of access
...technical groups, one of access ←
09:22:55 <karen> ...keep in mind that the education and outreach was one of the first ones
...keep in mind that the education and outreach was one of the first ones ←
09:23:04 <karen> ...we need to have some kind of group to deal with that task force
...we need to have some kind of group to deal with that task force ←
09:23:14 <karen> Sandro: so about five minutes before break
Sandro Hawke: so about five minutes before break ←
09:23:24 <karen> ...one more slide on interoperability
...one more slide on interoperability ←
09:23:32 <karen> ...we have raised many of them
...we have raised many of them ←
09:23:58 <karen> ...Go quickly through next two
...Go quickly through next two ←
09:24:04 <karen> 4. Multi-channel delivery
4. Multi-channel delivery ←
09:24:13 <karen> ...providing services through multiple channels
...providing services through multiple channels ←
09:24:22 <karen> ...from f2f and phone to web and mobile
...from f2f and phone to web and mobile ←
09:24:32 <karen> ...issues were about really understanding the requirements of the consumer
...issues were about really understanding the requirements of the consumer ←
09:24:36 <karen> ...mobile devices are limited
...mobile devices are limited ←
09:24:43 <karen> ...coordination of the different channels
...coordination of the different channels ←
09:24:54 <karen> ...so you don't provide different levels of service on different channels
...so you don't provide different levels of service on different channels ←
09:24:57 <karen> ...and Accessibilty
...and Accessibilty ←
09:25:06 <karen> Fifth Item is Identification and Authentication
Fifth Item is Identification and Authentication ←
09:25:19 <karen> ...allows confidence in transactions
...allows confidence in transactions ←
09:25:48 <karen> ...but "lack of coherent analogies to the forms and protocols that have endured for centuries"
...but "lack of coherent analogies to the forms and protocols that have endured for centuries" ←
09:26:05 <karen> ...notion of fair rsk allocation and risk
...notion of fair rsk allocation and risk ←
09:26:20 <karen> ...gov't may think it controls id authentication but cannot
...gov't may think it controls id authentication but cannot ←
09:26:28 <karen> ...Finally, next steps
...Finally, next steps ←
09:26:49 <karen> ...It was an active group at the time document was written
...It was an active group at the time document was written ←
09:27:03 <karen> ...Spirit of enthusiasm to help gov't transition
...Spirit of enthusiasm to help gov't transition ←
09:27:08 <karen> ...Focus on Linked Data
...Focus on Linked Data ←
09:27:15 <karen> ...and look at data provenance issues
...and look at data provenance issues ←
09:27:20 <karen> ...The actual next steps for IG
...The actual next steps for IG ←
09:27:24 <karen> ...unless something changes
...unless something changes ←
09:27:32 <karen> ...will run as more low-level
...will run as more low-level ←
09:27:39 <karen> ...meeting 1 to 2x a month
...meeting 1 to 2x a month ←
09:27:45 <karen> ...with speakers; more like a seminar
...with speakers; more like a seminar ←
09:27:52 <karen> ...coming out of these topics
...coming out of these topics ←
09:28:04 <karen> ...Hoping to get your input on topics
...Hoping to get your input on topics ←
09:28:15 <karen> ...of interest to you; or ones you may be willing to speak about
...of interest to you; or ones you may be willing to speak about ←
09:28:25 <karen> ...maybe that will draw a new community and do a new veresion of these reports
...maybe that will draw a new community and do a new veresion of these reports ←
09:28:41 <karen> ...Let's take a break in 30 minutes
...Let's take a break in 30 minutes ←
09:30:29 <karen> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
09:30:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-minutes.html karen
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-egov-minutes.html karen ←
09:47:33 <karen> [Break]
(No events recorded for 17 minutes)
[Break] ←
<sandro> Topic: Current status of IG
10:14:05 <karen> We had a lot of interest
(No events recorded for 26 minutes)
We had a lot of interest ←
10:14:18 <karen> But when we convened the meetings, nobody came
But when we convened the meetings, nobody came ←
10:14:29 <karen> Sandro: It was a surprise for me
Sandro Hawke: It was a surprise for me ←
10:14:39 <karen> ...working with software developers I had not seen anything like that
...working with software developers I had not seen anything like that ←
10:15:02 <karen> ...what I came to understand is that eGov IG participants are doing all this on their own time
...what I came to understand is that eGov IG participants are doing all this on their own time ←
10:15:14 <karen> ...looking for immediate, actionable things
...looking for immediate, actionable things ←
10:15:23 <karen> ...We continued to hold telcons for these groups
...We continued to hold telcons for these groups ←
10:15:30 <karen> ...but light attendance and petered out
...but light attendance and petered out ←
10:15:43 <karen> ...the demo people did some good work
...the demo people did some good work ←
10:15:48 <karen> ...The main group meetings
...The main group meetings ←
10:15:59 <karen> ...were every other week
...were every other week ←
10:16:16 <karen> ...in spring we switched to seminar style meetings
...in spring we switched to seminar style meetings ←
10:16:21 <karen> ...presentations were well attended
...presentations were well attended ←
10:16:25 <karen> ...first was DCAT
...first was DCAT ←
10:16:29 <karen> ...spun off a task force
...spun off a task force ←
10:16:34 <karen> ...with an issues list
...with an issues list ←
10:16:40 <karen> ...on hiatus now
...on hiatus now ←
10:16:47 <karen> ...Also had a presentation on data.gov.uk
...Also had a presentation on data.gov.uk ←
10:17:02 <karen> ...and way to get a linked data for developers familiar with JSON
...and way to get a linked data for developers familiar with JSON ←
10:17:14 <karen> ...We had another presentation from NYS legislator group
...We had another presentation from NYS legislator group ←
10:17:24 <karen> ...talking about an initiative about publishing linked data
...talking about an initiative about publishing linked data ←
10:17:29 <karen> ...lively discussion talking through issues
...lively discussion talking through issues ←
10:17:45 <karen> ...We had one meeting about a public notice system
...We had one meeting about a public notice system ←
10:18:00 <karen> ...We are looking to schedule more discussions over the next year, so interested in proposals
...We are looking to schedule more discussions over the next year, so interested in proposals ←
10:18:21 <karen> ...Then this idea to have a WG to do Gov't Linked Data
...Then this idea to have a WG to do Gov't Linked Data ←
10:18:24 <karen> ...this has been discussed
...this has been discussed ←
10:18:28 <karen> ...and there is high interest
...and there is high interest ←
10:18:35 <karen> ...we are looking for appropriate chairs
...we are looking for appropriate chairs ←
10:18:46 <karen> ...and we will talk about that tomorrow
...and we will talk about that tomorrow ←
<sandro> Topic: Introductions
10:23:16 <sandro> Karen_Burns: (introducing self, Karen Myers taking notes on flipchart)
Karen Burns: (introducing self, Karen Myers taking notes on flipchart) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:28:31 <sandro> Rigo_Wenning
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: Rigo_Wenning ←
10:28:57 <sandro> Gautier_Poupeau: digital preservation & archving
Gautier Poupeau: digital preservation & archving [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:29:07 <sandro> ... the how and why of open data
Sandro Hawke: ... the how and why of open data ←
10:29:54 <sandro> ... help organization understand its place in the ecosystem (the web).
Sandro Hawke: ... help organization understand its place in the ecosystem (the web). ←
10:31:13 <sandro> Emmanuelle_Bermes: Library data (public institutions, part of egov data)
Emmanuelle Bermes: Library data (public institutions, part of egov data) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:32:18 <sandro> ibrahima, you're welcome to come sit at the table, in that open spot.
Sandro Hawke: ibrahima, you're welcome to come sit at the table, in that open spot. ←
10:35:34 <sandro> Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi Corporation: Emergency Information --- spacial, temporal
Sandro Hawke: Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi Corporation: Emergency Information --- spacial, temporal ←
10:35:53 <sandro> .... many earthquakes, many typhoons
Sandro Hawke: .... many earthquakes, many typhoons ←
10:36:14 <sandro> ... disaster prevention -- most important task of government
Sandro Hawke: ... disaster prevention -- most important task of government ←
10:36:34 <sandro> ... temporal reason; in this group?
Sandro Hawke: ... temporal reason; in this group? ←
10:37:28 <sandro> ... defn of disaster. old defn earthquake, typhoon, etc. evolving definition, including Virus
Sandro Hawke: ... defn of disaster. old defn earthquake, typhoon, etc. evolving definition, including Virus ←
10:37:57 <sandro> ralph: how much is about maintaining good records, how much is about real-time recovery
Ralph Swick: how much is about maintaining good records, how much is about real-time recovery [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:39:03 <sandro> yosuke: three steps -- anticipation and information delivery; 2 govt response info when disaster happens; --- equally important
Yosuke Funahashi: three steps -- anticipation and information delivery; 2 govt response info when disaster happens; --- equally important [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:40:45 <sandro> ibrahima: at W3C office in Senegal. View of egovt in Senegal is not great; looking for ways to communicate its benefits
Ibrahima NGOM: at W3C office in Senegal. View of egovt in Senegal is not great; looking for ways to communicate its benefits [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:41:14 <sandro> ... demographic info not well exposed.
Sandro Hawke: ... demographic info not well exposed. ←
10:42:22 <sandro> Jim_Bell: mostly here to educate myself about this, for AB. Also, HP does a lot of business with gov'ts.
Jim Bell: mostly here to educate myself about this, for AB. Also, HP does a lot of business with gov'ts. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:43:29 <sandro> Jim_Bell: at HP, I do industry standards program office (over 500 people), open source program office (3000 people), office of accessibily and aging (all products/serv), ergonomics
Jim Bell: at HP, I do industry standards program office (over 500 people), open source program office (3000 people), office of accessibily and aging (all products/serv), ergonomics [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:43:50 <sandro> ... gov'ts are interested in all of these
Sandro Hawke: ... gov'ts are interested in all of these ←
10:45:11 <sandro> # Jose Leocadio, SERPRO (Brazilian Federal Agency of Information Technology)
Sandro Hawke: # Jose Leocadio, SERPRO (Brazilian Federal Agency of Information Technology) ←
10:46:20 <sandro> jose: data cloud, related to privacy and security
Jose Leocadio: data cloud, related to privacy and security [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:46:47 <sandro> Roger Cutler, Chevron [TUESDAY ONLY]
Sandro Hawke: Roger Cutler, Chevron [TUESDAY ONLY] ←
10:55:34 <sandro> rogerc: equipment catalogs, for procurement (cf what's on pb blowout preventer)
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
Roger Cutler: equipment catalogs, for procurement (cf what's on pb blowout preventer) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
10:56:06 <sandro> Vagner Diniz: lack of vocabs
Sandro Hawke: Vagner Diniz: lack of vocabs ←
10:57:12 <sandro> jim bell: very complex public procurement rules
Sandro Hawke: jim bell: very complex public procurement rules ←
11:00:50 <sandro> Vagner_Diniz: head of W3C Brazil office
Vagner Diniz: head of W3C Brazil office [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
11:02:02 <sandro> Vagner: Even if gov't publishes data on web, that doesn't mean it will be used. Gov't data may not be interesting, relevant
Vagner Diniz: Even if gov't publishes data on web, that doesn't mean it will be used. Gov't data may not be interesting, relevant [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
11:02:52 <sandro> ... translated WG Note to Portuguese, printed 2000 copies
Sandro Hawke: ... translated WG Note to Portuguese, printed 2000 copies ←
11:03:07 <sandro> ... program on How to Publish open data on the web
Sandro Hawke: ... program on How to Publish open data on the web ←
11:07:56 <sandro> Harry Halpin
Sandro Hawke: Harry Halpin ←
11:08:15 <sandro> # David Rogers, Wholesale Applications Community (WAC) [TUESDAY ONLY]
Sandro Hawke: # David Rogers, Wholesale Applications Community (WAC) [TUESDAY ONLY] ←
11:10:05 <sandro> Ralph Swick
Sandro Hawke: Ralph Swick ←
11:13:58 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2010/10/five-star/linked_data
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2010/10/five-star/linked_data ←
11:18:10 <sandro> robin: apie -- "open data" is something we can sell
Robin Berjon: apie -- "open data" is something we can sell [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
11:19:52 <sandro> agenda+ Do open data, linked open data outreach and advocacy?
Sandro Hawke: agenda+ Do open data, linked open data outreach and advocacy? ←
<sandro> Lunch break
Sandro Hawke: Lunch break ←
13:16:59 <sandro> # Bede McCall, MITRE Corporation
(No events recorded for 117 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: # Bede McCall, MITRE Corporation ←
13:17:30 <sandro> Bede: we look at the govt from inside
Bede McCall: we look at the govt from inside [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:19:34 <sandro> Rigo giving presentation on EU Public Sector Information
Sandro Hawke: Rigo giving presentation on EU Public Sector Information ←
13:22:25 <karen> Topic: Rigo Wenning Presentation on EU and Privacy
13:25:49 <sandro> bede: what if govt puts the service up there?
Bede McCall: what if govt puts the service up there? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:26:12 <sandro> rigo: would do that if there is no market, or to destroy the market
Rigo Wenning: would do that if there is no market, or to destroy the market [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:27:17 <sandro> bede: US agencies only respond to directives, not requests.
Bede McCall: US agencies only respond to directives, not requests. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:39:25 <sandro> some discussion of 27bn euro figure for PSI market, footnote to mepsir helm 2006
(No events recorded for 12 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: some discussion of 27bn euro figure for PSI market, footnote to mepsir helm 2006 ←
13:42:55 <sandro> rigo: BBC documentaries are public sector information, etc.
Rigo Wenning: BBC documentaries are public sector information, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:46:06 <sandro> rigo: ign lyon maps more expensive that getting your own plane and duplicating it yourself.
Rigo Wenning: ign lyon maps more expensive that getting your own plane and duplicating it yourself. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:49:01 <karen> Bede: when you have a normative law
Bede McCall: when you have a normative law ←
13:49:14 <karen> when you get to issues like law and regulation
when you get to issues like law and regulation ←
13:49:25 <karen> there must be some sort of licensing arrangement
there must be some sort of licensing arrangement ←
13:49:33 <karen> Rigo: yes, what I know is copyright laws
Rigo Wenning: yes, what I know is copyright laws ←
13:49:42 <karen> ...you cannot create another authoritative version
...you cannot create another authoritative version ←
13:49:46 <karen> ...you can republish
...you can republish ←
13:49:52 <karen> ...but there is a lot of gray area
...but there is a lot of gray area ←
13:50:04 <karen> ...huge gap between copyright violation
...huge gap between copyright violation ←
13:50:11 <karen> Bede: you don't really copyright laws
Bede McCall: you don't really copyright laws ←
13:50:16 <karen> Rigo: different concepts
Rigo Wenning: different concepts ←
13:50:34 <karen> ...in several European countries there is copyright over the law
...in several European countries there is copyright over the law ←
13:50:50 <karen> Robin: in France there were constraints; it's about making money
Robin Berjon: in France there were constraints; it's about making money ←
13:51:01 <karen> Rigo: about norms being stable
Rigo Wenning: about norms being stable ←
13:51:12 <karen> TimBL: I would suggest it has nothing to do with copyright
Tim Berners-Lee: I would suggest it has nothing to do with copyright ←
13:51:18 <karen> ...if it says this is the law
...if it says this is the law ←
13:51:22 <karen> ...and you change it, you are lying
...and you change it, you are lying ←
13:51:27 <karen> ...if you said this is what Congress passed
...if you said this is what Congress passed ←
13:51:38 <sandro> tim: this is about fraud, not copyright, if you re-publish the law changed
Tim Berners-Lee: this is about fraud, not copyright, if you re-publish the law changed [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:51:45 <karen> ...if you take off this is what Congress passed and what I proposed in the EU, that should be ok
...if you take off this is what Congress passed and what I proposed in the EU, that should be ok ←
13:51:54 <karen> Bede: your opinion of the law is welcome
Bede McCall: your opinion of the law is welcome ←
13:52:08 <karen> ...but what I was getting at was the business of why the gov't would want to license laws and regulation
...but what I was getting at was the business of why the gov't would want to license laws and regulation ←
13:52:17 <karen> DanielD: the gov't license I got
Daniel Dardailler: the gov't license I got ←
13:52:35 <karen> ...was committing myself to update data and conform with their format
...was committing myself to update data and conform with their format ←
13:52:42 <karen> Bede: so a contractual obligation
Bede McCall: so a contractual obligation ←
13:52:49 <karen> Daniel: yes, a kind of license
Daniel Dardailler: yes, a kind of license ←
13:52:55 <karen> Bede: So if you put this information online
Bede McCall: So if you put this information online ←
13:52:59 <karen> ...is that general access?
...is that general access? ←
13:53:05 <karen> Daniel: If I put it on source and date
Daniel Dardailler: If I put it on source and date ←
13:53:18 <karen> Bede: as a licensee you are held responsible
Bede McCall: as a licensee you are held responsible ←
13:53:23 <karen> Daniel: yes, for updating my source
Daniel Dardailler: yes, for updating my source ←
13:53:41 <karen> Bede: I made a copy of someone's database and made a few changes to exclude myself
Bede McCall: I made a copy of someone's database and made a few changes to exclude myself ←
13:53:47 <karen> ...Is that source responsible then?
...Is that source responsible then? ←
13:53:54 <karen> Daniel: Would be a different kind of license
Daniel Dardailler: Would be a different kind of license ←
13:54:09 <karen> ...the license I read (earlier today) I would have to change it so you use the right one
...the license I read (earlier today) I would have to change it so you use the right one ←
13:54:17 <karen> ...I update as my source data, then I don't think I have to do it
...I update as my source data, then I don't think I have to do it ←
13:54:30 <karen> Bede: so you have publicly available info on the Web
Bede McCall: so you have publicly available info on the Web ←
13:54:37 <karen> ...so what happens when someone makes a copy of that
...so what happens when someone makes a copy of that ←
13:54:45 <karen> ...potential to change the substance of the law
...potential to change the substance of the law ←
13:54:51 <karen> Sandro: in several different contexts
Sandro Hawke: in several different contexts ←
13:55:02 <karen> ...I have seen demand for gov't data to be clearly labeled
...I have seen demand for gov't data to be clearly labeled ←
13:55:12 <karen> ...I think of these problems being solved by labeling
...I think of these problems being solved by labeling ←
13:55:15 <karen> ...but may not be enough
...but may not be enough ←
13:55:22 <karen> ...may need signature on a document
...may need signature on a document ←
13:55:29 <karen> Daniel: you may not be able to change it
Daniel Dardailler: you may not be able to change it ←
13:55:42 <karen> ...can I augment the database if i add new info
...can I augment the database if i add new info ←
13:55:51 <karen> ...how legal is that depends upon the license
...how legal is that depends upon the license ←
13:55:59 <karen> Rigo: It is difficult to write a sensible license
Rigo Wenning: It is difficult to write a sensible license ←
13:56:04 <karen> ...things that are supposed to be normative
...things that are supposed to be normative ←
13:56:09 <karen> ...there is a need for protection
...there is a need for protection ←
13:56:16 <karen> ...some of it is assumed by just the legal system
...some of it is assumed by just the legal system ←
13:56:27 <karen> ...and you don't see it anyway; this is partly the case in France
...and you don't see it anyway; this is partly the case in France ←
13:56:39 <karen> ...In the German case you can copy and distribute as you want but cannot change it
...In the German case you can copy and distribute as you want but cannot change it ←
13:56:42 <karen> ...for all normative rule things
...for all normative rule things ←
13:56:55 <karen> ...If you could change it, you would be the new principal in town to rule in a certain area
...If you could change it, you would be the new principal in town to rule in a certain area ←
13:57:05 <karen> ...for other factual data, this is not needed
...for other factual data, this is not needed ←
13:57:10 <karen> TimBL: if you could change it
Tim Berners-Lee: if you could change it ←
13:57:29 <karen> ...if someone takes a W3C spec and publish as someone different, they are not a new game in town
...if someone takes a W3C spec and publish as someone different, they are not a new game in town ←
13:57:48 <karen> ...you cannot be a new Parliament just by changing the laws and publishing
...you cannot be a new Parliament just by changing the laws and publishing ←
13:57:59 <karen> Rigo: If I change words and cal it a law
Rigo Wenning: If I change words and cal it a law ←
13:58:07 <karen> ...and publish it then I violate
...and publish it then I violate ←
13:58:21 <karen> TimBL: has to do with the rule of law and the type of constitution you are under
Tim Berners-Lee: has to do with the rule of law and the type of constitution you are under ←
13:58:26 <karen> Rigo: One way of making sure
Rigo Wenning: One way of making sure ←
13:58:37 <karen> ...that the principal is only one creating those laws
...that the principal is only one creating those laws ←
13:58:42 <karen> ...you can have an opinion
...you can have an opinion ←
13:58:47 <karen> ...and you can say this is how it would look
...and you can say this is how it would look ←
13:58:51 <karen> Bede: that's fine
Bede McCall: that's fine ←
13:58:59 <karen> Rigo: But to say it's the new law or new spec, you cannot
Rigo Wenning: But to say it's the new law or new spec, you cannot ←
13:59:06 <karen> ...but in some countries it's organized by copyright
...but in some countries it's organized by copyright ←
13:59:19 <karen> ...if you do that, it's an aggressive act that could trigger military action
...if you do that, it's an aggressive act that could trigger military action ←
13:59:26 <karen> Gautier: Not just the core aspect
Gautier Poupeau: Not just the core aspect ←
13:59:32 <karen> ...there is a psychological aspect
...there is a psychological aspect ←
13:59:39 <karen> ...a license can be a comfort to people
...a license can be a comfort to people ←
13:59:42 <karen> ...to help to expose their data
...to help to expose their data ←
13:59:44 <karen> ...it's mine
...it's mine ←
13:59:53 <karen> ...with a license we can say, your project, your data
...with a license we can say, your project, your data ←
13:59:57 <sandro> Gautier: not the just a juridical concept
Gautier Poupeau: not the just a juridical concept [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:59:58 <karen> ...no problem, you can expose
...no problem, you can expose ←
14:00:01 <karen> ...I think we don't
...I think we don't ←
14:00:06 <karen> ...we have to keep in mind this aspect
...we have to keep in mind this aspect ←
14:00:17 <karen> ...I think it very important to comfort people in order to expose data
...I think it very important to comfort people in order to expose data ←
14:00:28 <karen> ...a license can help them not to be worried about that
...a license can help them not to be worried about that ←
14:00:34 <karen> Daniel: You mean a user of the system?
Daniel Dardailler: You mean a user of the system? ←
14:00:38 <karen> ...or programmer?
...or programmer? ←
14:00:46 <karen> Gautier: I think about manager on the gov't side
Gautier Poupeau: I think about manager on the gov't side ←
14:00:52 <karen> Daniel: yes on of the fears about losing control
Daniel Dardailler: yes on of the fears about losing control ←
14:00:55 <sandro> Gautier: license helps the managers in the govt feel better about the system
Gautier Poupeau: license helps the managers in the govt feel better about the system [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:00:57 <karen> Gautier: it's a good way
Gautier Poupeau: it's a good way ←
14:01:10 <karen> Daniel: I understand that the gov't asks me to update the source
Daniel Dardailler: I understand that the gov't asks me to update the source ←
14:01:19 <karen> ...but to ask me to maintain the data format is far-fetched
...but to ask me to maintain the data format is far-fetched ←
14:01:29 <karen> Rigo: In Europe, not US yet but discussing,
Rigo Wenning: In Europe, not US yet but discussing, ←
14:01:33 <karen> ...is the right on data bases
...is the right on data bases ←
14:01:36 <karen> ...if you have a data base
...if you have a data base ←
14:01:40 <karen> ...it is protected as such
...it is protected as such ←
14:01:45 <karen> ...again a question for the licensing
...again a question for the licensing ←
14:01:54 <karen> ...if public sector is giving out this data for free
...if public sector is giving out this data for free ←
14:02:07 <karen> ...how do we protect from private companies taking a copy of the data
...how do we protect from private companies taking a copy of the data ←
14:02:14 <karen> ...and prohibit others from doing things with it
...and prohibit others from doing things with it ←
14:02:27 <karen> ...a very interesting question on how to create licensing to prevent it from happening
...a very interesting question on how to create licensing to prevent it from happening ←
14:02:32 <karen> ...So we come back to the charging
...So we come back to the charging ←
14:02:44 <karen> ...where it's only triggered if you have a substantial investment into the database
...where it's only triggered if you have a substantial investment into the database ←
14:02:52 <karen> Bede: Something like a GPL to solve it
Bede McCall: Something like a GPL to solve it ←
14:02:56 <karen> ...it's a viral license
...it's a viral license ←
14:03:07 <karen> Rigo: the viral thing bites you when you have a commercial company doing the product
Rigo Wenning: the viral thing bites you when you have a commercial company doing the product ←
14:03:12 <karen> Bede: Format issue there
Bede McCall: Format issue there ←
14:03:17 <karen> Rigo: Can you separate that?
Rigo Wenning: Can you separate that? ←
14:03:20 <karen> ...interesting discussions
...interesting discussions ←
14:03:27 <karen> Gautier: If you want to make an open system
Gautier Poupeau: If you want to make an open system ←
14:03:33 <karen> ...you cannot have a license like GPL
...you cannot have a license like GPL ←
14:03:39 <karen> ...what is the role?
...what is the role? ←
14:03:47 <karen> ...to make an ecosystem with eGov data
...to make an ecosystem with eGov data ←
14:04:03 <karen> ...you need to have a world wide license
...you need to have a world wide license ←
14:04:07 <karen> Bede: Statements of law
Bede McCall: Statements of law ←
14:04:22 <karen> Gautier: two different things; the data and the code
Gautier Poupeau: two different things; the data and the code ←
14:04:35 <karen> Rigo: If you use this virally infected data in your code
Rigo Wenning: If you use this virally infected data in your code ←
14:04:40 <karen> ...you have people shying away
...you have people shying away ←
14:04:44 <karen> Bede: So I understand
Bede McCall: So I understand ←
14:04:57 <karen> ...Just thinking of a way to cover the content, the substance of law is about this
...Just thinking of a way to cover the content, the substance of law is about this ←
14:05:02 <karen> Rigo: ok
Rigo Wenning: ok ←
14:05:31 <karen> Rigo: What I want to say is that W3C is talking with EU on a high level
Rigo Wenning: What I want to say is that W3C is talking with EU on a high level ←
14:05:40 <karen> ...public sector data is high on their agenda
...public sector data is high on their agenda ←
14:05:54 <karen> ...would like to see the private sector to do useful stuff with it
...would like to see the private sector to do useful stuff with it ←
14:06:04 <karen> ...This will trigger all these other discussion
...This will trigger all these other discussion ←
14:06:11 <karen> ...We need to create a venue for this
...We need to create a venue for this ←
14:06:26 <karen> ...globally and agree to matching interoperability
...globally and agree to matching interoperability ←
14:06:31 <karen> Bede: What would W3C's role be in that?
Bede McCall: What would W3C's role be in that? ←
14:06:39 <karen> ...policy, engineering?
...policy, engineering? ←
14:06:55 <karen> Rigo: we are as a platform pretty neutral
Rigo Wenning: we are as a platform pretty neutral ←
14:06:59 <karen> ...second thing is culture of W3C
...second thing is culture of W3C ←
14:07:19 <karen> ...you leave your political hat outside and focus more on the technology engineering
...you leave your political hat outside and focus more on the technology engineering ←
14:07:27 <karen> ...this culture that makes agreements on this level
...this culture that makes agreements on this level ←
14:07:32 <karen> ...is much easier than if you go by the UN
...is much easier than if you go by the UN ←
14:07:43 <karen> Bede: But the gov't is still free to ignore you
Bede McCall: But the gov't is still free to ignore you ←
14:07:54 <karen> ...So what do you say what W3C's opinion is about these topics
...So what do you say what W3C's opinion is about these topics ←
14:08:04 <karen> Rigo: I think our Director has an opinion on this
Rigo Wenning: I think our Director has an opinion on this ←
14:08:11 <karen> ...regarding data.gov.uk
...regarding data.gov.uk ←
14:08:25 <karen> ...There is some unspoken agreement in this room that this is a good thing to pursue
...There is some unspoken agreement in this room that this is a good thing to pursue ←
14:08:37 <karen> Bede: true; but what do you tell these gov't people?
Bede McCall: true; but what do you tell these gov't people? ←
14:08:53 <karen> Rigo: we shoult at them, "raw data now" [laughs]
Rigo Wenning: we shoult at them, "raw data now" [laughs] ←
14:09:04 <karen> Daniel: The are using us as an ally
Daniel Dardailler: The are using us as an ally ←
14:09:17 <karen> ...enemy is the bureaucracy and the fear
...enemy is the bureaucracy and the fear ←
14:09:22 <karen> Bede: But what is your story
Bede McCall: But what is your story ←
14:09:34 <karen> ...you guys say we should share information, but where do we start?
...you guys say we should share information, but where do we start? ←
14:09:50 <karen> Thomas: We have not only been shouting, "raw data now" but "data well done"
Thomas Roessler: We have not only been shouting, "raw data now" but "data well done" ←
14:09:53 <karen> ...and then link them
...and then link them ←
14:09:57 <karen> ...the five star story
...the five star story ←
14:10:11 <karen> ...start with raw data and agree on formats first
...start with raw data and agree on formats first ←
14:10:23 <karen> ...and drive public sector information
...and drive public sector information ←
14:10:31 <karen> ...so that's where a W3C Working Group
...so that's where a W3C Working Group ←
14:10:44 <karen> ...could agree upon the ontologies and vocabularies where they make sense
...could agree upon the ontologies and vocabularies where they make sense ←
14:10:53 <karen> ...that is our story in Brussels recently
...that is our story in Brussels recently ←
14:10:59 <karen> Rigo: You are invited to shout, too
Rigo Wenning: You are invited to shout, too ←
14:11:05 <karen> ...there is a survey going on right now
...there is a survey going on right now ←
14:11:12 <karen> ...encourage you to fill it out online
...encourage you to fill it out online ←
14:11:42 <karen> Rigo: Add link to eGov wiki page
Rigo Wenning: Add link to eGov wiki page ←
14:11:51 <karen> TimBL: one of messages that is hard to get
Tim Berners-Lee: one of messages that is hard to get ←
14:11:55 <karen> ...is about picking your battles
...is about picking your battles ←
14:12:03 <karen> ...Semantic Web framework helps to do that
...Semantic Web framework helps to do that ←
14:12:27 <karen> ...Understand it's an investment that will get a larger return
...Understand it's an investment that will get a larger return ←
14:13:06 <karen> Bede: on-going issue is toward creating a common schema to cover all gov't data
Bede McCall: on-going issue is toward creating a common schema to cover all gov't data ←
14:13:11 <karen> ...we had one agency try to do that
...we had one agency try to do that ←
14:14:29 <karen> TimBL describes one CIO's need for common reporting for one area
TimBL describes one CIO's need for common reporting for one area ←
14:14:43 <karen> Rigo: We are talking with EU Commission on a high level
Rigo Wenning: We are talking with EU Commission on a high level ←
14:14:53 <karen> ...We expect to do more work on Linked Data
...We expect to do more work on Linked Data ←
14:15:36 <darobin> I didn't see this link pushed here, so in case it wasn't: http://ec.europa.eu/yourvoice/ipm/forms/dispatch?form=psidirective2010
Robin Berjon: I didn't see this link pushed here, so in case it wasn't: http://ec.europa.eu/yourvoice/ipm/forms/dispatch?form=psidirective2010 ←
<sandro> Topic: Today's Agenda
14:15:38 <karen> Sandro: Our next break is in 15 minutes; we have two more hours
Sandro Hawke: Our next break is in 15 minutes; we have two more hours ←
14:15:46 <darobin> that's the EU's public consultation on PSI
Robin Berjon: that's the EU's public consultation on PSI ←
14:15:52 <karen> ...I would like to read through the agenda items and get a read
...I would like to read through the agenda items and get a read ←
14:16:01 <karen> ...on what people want to continue discussing
...on what people want to continue discussing ←
14:16:08 <karen> ...Open data keeps coming up
...Open data keeps coming up ←
14:16:12 <karen> ...Tomorrow is about linked data
...Tomorrow is about linked data ←
14:16:18 <karen> ...So we could talk about open data today
...So we could talk about open data today ←
14:16:24 <karen> Daniel: Where do you place data?
Daniel Dardailler: Where do you place data? ←
14:16:52 <karen> ...need to know what kind of data is being talked about
...need to know what kind of data is being talked about ←
14:16:55 <karen> ...all this naming of things
...all this naming of things ←
14:17:05 <karen> Sandro: I tend to deal with this mostly in the LD context
Sandro Hawke: I tend to deal with this mostly in the LD context ←
14:17:30 <karen> Daniel: the naming part is important
Daniel Dardailler: the naming part is important ←
14:17:40 <karen> ...not sure if any organization is working on public sector naming
...not sure if any organization is working on public sector naming ←
14:17:50 <karen> ...I would think there is 80% that would be common
...I would think there is 80% that would be common ←
14:18:05 <karen> Sandro: In US there is an initiative from NIEM that addresses some of that in XML
Sandro Hawke: In US there is an initiative from NIEM that addresses some of that in XML ←
14:18:23 <karen> Sandro: we also talked about Cloud computing; Open Source and Open Standards
Sandro Hawke: we also talked about Cloud computing; Open Source and Open Standards ←
14:18:34 <karen> ..Interoperability and Interoperability Frameworks
..Interoperability and Interoperability Frameworks ←
14:18:43 <karen> ...Vocabularies and Open Data
...Vocabularies and Open Data ←
14:18:46 <karen> ...Identity
...Identity ←
14:18:59 <karen> Gautier: another topic about eGov education and outreach
Gautier Poupeau: another topic about eGov education and outreach ←
14:19:16 <karen> ...we are all convinced but how do we convince others?
...we are all convinced but how do we convince others? ←
14:19:27 <karen> ...It is very important to have a W3C perspective
...It is very important to have a W3C perspective ←
14:19:37 <karen> ...and to help us to evangelize
...and to help us to evangelize ←
14:19:46 <karen> Daniel: related to eGov outreach is the organizational side
Daniel Dardailler: related to eGov outreach is the organizational side ←
14:20:02 <karen> ...Would be to do more than one WG; would need more funding and investment
...Would be to do more than one WG; would need more funding and investment ←
14:20:23 <karen> Sandro: Structure of a larger eGov initiative
Sandro Hawke: Structure of a larger eGov initiative ←
14:20:57 <karen> Voting on topics
Voting on topics ←
14:21:12 <karen> 1. Social media in Gov't - 0
1. Social media in Gov't - 0 ←
14:21:19 <karen> 2. Mobile access to gov't services -0
2. Mobile access to gov't services -0 ←
14:21:29 <karen> 3. Open Gov't data - 6
3. Open Gov't data - 6 ←
14:21:42 <karen> Vagner: I can present cases here is you want
Vagner Diniz: I can present cases here is you want ←
14:21:47 <karen> 4. Cloud computing - 0
4. Cloud computing - 0 ←
14:22:00 <karen> 5. Open Source and Open Standards - 0
5. Open Source and Open Standards - 0 ←
14:22:19 <karen> 6. Interoperability and Interop Frameworks - 0
6. Interoperability and Interop Frameworks - 0 ←
14:22:28 <karen> 7. Vocabularies - 5
7. Vocabularies - 5 ←
14:23:02 <karen> 8. Identity - 5
8. Identity - 5 ←
14:23:10 <karen> 9. eGov outreach - 6
9. eGov outreach - 6 ←
14:23:21 <karen> 10. eGov Initiative at W3C - 2
10. eGov Initiative at W3C - 2 ←
14:23:25 <karen> Combine 10 with 9
Combine 10 with 9 ←
14:24:00 <karen> Sandro: we can combine top choices
Sandro Hawke: we can combine top choices ←
14:24:07 <karen> ...take shorter break
...take shorter break ←
14:24:20 <karen> ...back at 3:50 sharp start
...back at 3:50 sharp start ←
14:24:29 <sandro> BREAK
Sandro Hawke: BREAK ←
14:29:17 <karen> Sandro: Let's start with Education and Outreach;
Sandro Hawke: Let's start with Education and Outreach; ←
14:29:31 <karen> Identity; Open Data
Identity; Open Data ←
14:29:40 <karen> Rest of day discussion topics
Rest of day discussion topics ←
15:29:13 <sandro> topic: Open Gov't Data
(No events recorded for 59 minutes)
15:29:24 <sandro> # Review Publishing Open Government Data
Sandro Hawke: # Review Publishing Open Government Data ←
15:29:24 <sandro> # dcat, ckan, open knowledge foundation (?)
Sandro Hawke: # dcat, ckan, open knowledge foundation (?) ←
15:29:24 <sandro> # Connections to POI WG, Provenance XG
Sandro Hawke: # Connections to POI WG, Provenance XG ←
15:29:44 <sandro> Rigo: What about geography in provenance.... firewalls
Rigo Wenning: What about geography in provenance.... firewalls [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:30:12 <sandro> bede: Internal to govts -- provenance is very hot.
Bede McCall: Internal to govts -- provenance is very hot. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
<sandro> Topic: Federated Identity and eGovernment
16:03:58 <emma> Harry Halpin is presenting Identity issues
(No events recorded for 33 minutes)
Emmanuelle Bermes: Harry Halpin is presenting Identity issues ←
16:14:54 <emma> Discussing security levels in Identity in different countries EU vs. US, others
(No events recorded for 10 minutes)
Emmanuelle Bermes: Discussing security levels in Identity in different countries EU vs. US, others ←
16:17:08 <sandro> brazil: no, just a plan for electronic passpaorts.
Sandro Hawke: brazil: no, just a plan for electronic passpaorts. ←
16:19:48 <sandro> japan: no, japanese citizens are very resistant to being treated as "numbers" by the gov't
Sandro Hawke: japan: no, japanese citizens are very resistant to being treated as "numbers" by the gov't ←
16:20:29 <emma> Harry H. : people of this group interested in a workshop on requirements for identity ?
Emmanuelle Bermes: Harry H. : people of this group interested in a workshop on requirements for identity ? ←
16:20:59 <rigo> currently discussing identity schemes
Rigo Wenning: currently discussing identity schemes ←
16:21:15 <rigo> have looked at US initiatives
Rigo Wenning: have looked at US initiatives ←
16:21:50 <rigo> then to EU intiatives like EID and www.eid-stork.eu
Rigo Wenning: then to EU intiatives like EID and www.eid-stork.eu ←
16:22:00 <rigo> then talking about identity solutions in Japan
Rigo Wenning: then talking about identity solutions in Japan ←
16:22:33 <rigo> suggestion about a workshop in identity (to be held in Berlin around April) was well received
Rigo Wenning: suggestion about a workshop in identity (to be held in Berlin around April) was well received ←
16:23:10 <rigo> DD: IG scope charter, education & outreach is in scope
Daniel Dardailler: IG scope charter, education & outreach is in scope [ Scribe Assist by Rigo Wenning ] ←
16:23:11 <emma> Topic: Education & outreach
16:23:19 <rigo> ...there is work in this area, but how to organize
Rigo Wenning: ...there is work in this area, but how to organize ←
16:23:27 <rigo> ...not one person doing everything
Rigo Wenning: ...not one person doing everything ←
16:23:41 <rigo> SH: was part of the charter and haven' t done it
Sandro Hawke: was part of the charter and haven' t done it [ Scribe Assist by Rigo Wenning ] ←
16:24:39 <emma> Rigo: gov'ts want knowledge from W3C on how this technology works
Rigo Wenning: gov'ts want knowledge from W3C on how this technology works [ Scribe Assist by Emmanuelle Bermes ] ←
16:24:54 <emma> ...and have funding issues
Emmanuelle Bermes: ...and have funding issues ←
16:25:30 <emma> ... govts face a chicken & egg problem
Emmanuelle Bermes: ... govts face a chicken & egg problem ←
16:27:30 <emma> ...need for shared financing at international level
Emmanuelle Bermes: ...need for shared financing at international level ←
16:28:04 <sandro> rigo: Much easier for govts to send us people than money. Get them to send people, with travel budgets.
Rigo Wenning: Much easier for govts to send us people than money. Get them to send people, with travel budgets. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:34:56 <rigo> still problem to get the resources for work in the identity space
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Rigo Wenning: still problem to get the resources for work in the identity space ←
16:36:48 <rigo> dues are not an issue, showing up and getting people involved is tricky
Rigo Wenning: dues are not an issue, showing up and getting people involved is tricky ←
16:37:36 <rigo> issue is to get a budget that persists for more than a fiscal year
Rigo Wenning: issue is to get a budget that persists for more than a fiscal year ←
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This revision (#4) generated 2010-11-19 21:21:28 UTC by 'unknown', comments: None