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WAI UA Telecon for March 1st, 2000


Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, March 1st
Time: 2:00 pm to 3:30 pm Eastern Standard Time, USA
Call-in: Longfellow Bridge (+1) (617) 252-1038


Agenda

Review Open Action Items

Announcements

  1. Update on FTF meeting in April

Discussion

Issue CR#190: Reduce the scope of 5.1 to say "write access only for that which you can do through the UI."

URI: http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#190

Proposed Resolution:

Full read access DOM and write to UI controls:

Checkpoint 1. Provide programatic read access to content by conforming to DOM level 2 core and HTML modules and exporting... [Priority 1]

Checkpoint 2. Provide programatic read and write to author supplied user interface controls by conforming to DOM level 2 core and HTML modules and exporting... [Priority 1]

Other checkpoints affected: Requires modifying new checkpoint for general access to read only , instead of read write


Issue CR#194 : In a timed presentation does checkpoint 7.2 mean return to the time that the user was at in a previous MM rendering

URI: http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#190

Proposed Resolution for MM:
1. Only for synchronized MM
2. Includes both space and time


Issue CR#195 (Candidate Recommendation): Problems understanding checkpoint 1.5

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#195

What does this checkpoint mean:

  1. Is this user interface question?
  2. Is the an API question?
  3. Is this both?

Does this require text equivalents or not?

Are text equivalents the best we can do right now?

Does this mean that if you make a sound you do something else too and if you do something visually you also make a sound?

Currently Proposed Resolution Options:

Option A: Checkpoint 1.5 Ensure that user agent-initiated messages to the user (e.g., informational messages, warnings, error messages, etc.) are available through all output channels supported by the user interface.

Option B: Checkpoint 1.5 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text user interface component available to the user through the user interface.

Note: This does not require descriptions of images or sounds, but a redundent text message of the information the graphic or sound was trying to convey to the user.


Issue CR#196: It is unclear to developers how they know they conform to Checkpoint 6.2: Conform to W3C specifications when they are appropriate

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#196

Proposed Resolution:

  1. Change wording "Use and conform to W3C specifications when they are available and appropriate for a task."
  2. Add note: Implementing one accessible format
  3. Add techniques: From ATAG "Specifications that become W3C Recommendations after an authoring tool's development cycles permit input are not considered "available" in time. "

Issue CR#197: Not clear with the scope of user preferences is in Checkpoint 10.7

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#197

Proposed Resolution:

  1. Narrow scope to style and input configuration
  2. Add technique: Accessible browser project portable configuration file

Issue CR#198: How much information needs to be provided to satisfy Checkpoint 8.4

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#198

Proposed Resolution:

  1. Make current list of items is minimum requirement, plus any that we may have missed

Issue CR#199: Poor wording of checkpoint 10.8, it is not clear what the requirement is to improve accessibility

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#199

Proposed Resolution:

  1. Ensure that the most frequently used functions are the most easily activated in the default configuration.
  2. Add technique: Show operating system conventions

CR#200: Checkpoint 5.5 on timely exchanges, developers not unclear on how they know they have satisfied this checkpoint

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#200

Resolution Options:

  1. Merge requirement in with other applicable checkpoints
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0359.html
  2. Ian's pending proposal

CR#201: 5.5 "Ensure that programmatic exchanges proceed in a timely manner" should be a priority 1

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#201

Resolution Options:

  1. Merge requirement in with other applicable checkpoints
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0359.html
  2. Ian's pending proposal

CR#202: User agent configuration to render NOFRAMES content

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#202

Proposed Resolution:

  1. HTML 4.0 Specification issues related to NOFRAMES rendering
    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html#h-16.4.1

CR#204: Add collated text to Checkpoint 2.6 and 4.8 or create a new checkpoint at lower priority

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#204

Proposed Resolution:

  1. Add collated text to checkpoints
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0343.html

CR#205: Timing issues related to AT missing or not being synchronized to document changes

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#205

Resolution Options:

  1. Merge requirement in with other applicable checkpoints
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0359.html
  2. Ian's pending proposal

CR#206: Precise specification of what parts of DOM are required

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#206

Resolution Options:

  1. Add W3C DOM level 2 Event Module at Priority 2
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0359.html
  2. Do not include rteference to DOM Event Model

Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

Present:
David Poehlman
Mickey Quenzer
Gregory J. Rosmaita
Dick Brown
Denis Anson
Harvey Bingham
Mark Novak
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Hans Riesebos

Regrets:
Kitch Barnicle
Madeleine Rothberg


Action Items

Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Propose checkpoint to address event notification timing issue
  2. DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints
  3. JA: Rewrite techniques for 3.3 (see minutes)
  4. MK: For 4.8 check if any media players do this?
  5. MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of streamed text.
  6. MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
  7. MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
  8. RS: Take timely and synchronization issues to WAI PF. Get input from MSAA developers as well. Craft email to PF WG with Ian

New Action Items

  1. IJ: Split checkpoint 5.1 (28 January Draft) into read and UI write as stated in minutes
  2. IJ: Add a cross-reference from 2.1 to 5.1 and say in 5.1 that this is a special case of 2.1
  3. IJ: Add techniques to checkpoint 7.2 for synchronous multi-media presentation (space and time)
  4. IJ: Ensure that techniques for checkpoint 1.5 talk about using status bar to display message
  5. IJ: Incorporate proposal for checkpoint 1.5 from minutes
  6. IJ: Add rationale to Checkpoint 1.5: if you're deaf blind you might need this (Braille display).
  7. DB: See if microsoft can produce HTML version of their developer guidelines

Completed Action Items

  1. IJ: Find out whether rendered content from style sheets appears in the document source.
  2. JG: for 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0405.html
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0409.html
  3. JG: Check with Ian about adding reference in 4.5 to 4.6 in regard to stepping through animation/video/audio.
  4. MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January.
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0253.html

Minutes

Next meeting: 2 March

Agenda [1]

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0400.html

Review of Open Action Items

1.IJ: Find out whether rendered content from style sheets appears in the document source.
Status: Done. The answer is no (from Philippe Le Hegaret).

2.IJ: Propose checkpoint to address event notification timing issue
Status: Not done.

3.JG: for 5.3: Find out windows/mac accessibility guidelines.
Status: Done.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0409.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0405.html

4.JG: Check with Ian about adding reference in 4.5 to 4.6 in regard to stepping through animation/video/audio.
Status: Done.

5.DB: Ask IE Team about publication of review of IE 5 and Pri 1 checkpoints.
Status: Pending.

6.JA: Rewrite techniques for 3.3 (see minutes)
Status: Done. (refer to minutes of last meeting).

7.MK: For 4.8 check if any media players do this?
Status: No info

8.MK: Find out techniques for sending text search requests to servers of streamed text.
Status: No info

9.MR: Review techniques for topic 3.1 (Multi-media)
Status: No info

10.MR: Review techniques for Guideline 4 (Multi-media)
Status: No info

11.MR: Run a multimedia player through the guidelines for January.
Status: Done.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2000JanMar/0253.html

12.RS: Take timely and synchronization issues to WAI PF. Get input from MSAA developers as well. Craft email to PF WG with Ian

RS: I've been working this from another angle.

ACTION DB: See if "MS Developer Accessibility Guidelines" can be made available as HTML.

Announcement: Update on ftf information.

IJ: We can meet at RF and D in New Jersey. If we get the issues resolved and the document ready, we'll have the meeting on 10-11 April.

JB: Possibility of additional teleconf on Friday? (Some people can't attend)

Issue CR#190: Reduce the scope of 5.1 to say "write access only for that which you can do through the UI."

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#190

Proposed: Split 5.1 into:
a) Read-only for XML/HTML DOM 2 core
b) Write for ui controls available through content.

IJ: I think that "b" is fairer than full write since that means that you can do through API what you can do through the UI.

RS: Javascript can change menus on the screen. Is there an accessibility issue that ATs be allowed to do the same thing?

MN: Why is this not covered by 2.1?

JG: I think 2.1 is primarily UI.

GR: In my post on NOFRAMES, I quoted the HTML 4.0 spec: (talks about configured not to display frames).

DP: What do we lose if we don't allow write access to the full core spec?

JG: Not clear.

DP: What about "Begin Table/End Table"? Are those written in the document tree by the AT, or added by the AT?

IJ: If they are walking the DOM (and not getting info from graphical rendering), then don't need to write. AT can prepend itself.

Resolved: Split 5.1 into:
a) Read-only for XML/HTML DOM 2 core
b) Write for ui controls provided through content.

Action Ian:
- Make this change.
- Add a cross-reference from 2.1 to 5.1 and say in 5.1 that this is a special case of 2.1

Issue CR#194 : In a timed presentation does checkpoint 7.2 mean return to the time that the user was at in a previous MM rendering

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#194

Proposed:
1. Only for synchronized multimedia
2. Includes both space and time

DP: Problem of streaming media. It's possible for downloadable media.

IJ: I think that the applicability clause and a comment in the techniques document could clear this up.

DP: If a multimedia presentation stops when you leave the page, then you should be able to return to it.

IJ: I don't know why disorientation doesn't apply to multimedia.

GR: I agree.

Resolved:
- Add an examples of multimedia/time to "point of regard"
- Add a technique for multimedia tools about:
a) If the presentation stops when you leave a presentation, bookmark and return. Distinguish running in "background" from paused.
b) Comment about inapplicability for streamed media.

Action Ian: Add these to techniques document.

Issue CR#195 (Candidate Recommendation): Problems understanding checkpoint 1.5

http://cmos-eng.rehab.uiuc.edu/ua-issues/issues-linear.html#195

JG: Question of what exactly is meant by 1.5. Is this a UI checkpoint or an API checkpoint?

Proposed 1) Ensure that user agent-initiated messages to the user are available through all output channels supported through the UI.

Proposed 2) Provide a text-equivalent in the user interface for every non-text user interface component. (Based on WCAG 1.1).

DA: What about the case where the UA emits a beep?

JG: Message on the status bar.

IJ: Components work in tandem: the sum of the components around a given functionality must be accessible together (and have a text equivalent).

GR: Problems of access to colors.

IJ: Not a problem: Either text is there for everyone, or you can query. But you can't make the color alone accessible to all people.

Proposed 2) Ensure that every functionality available through the user interface is represented in the user interface as text.

DB: For IE colors, nicknames should be available for main colors.

MQ: Allow users to name colors that they create....

Proposed 2) Ensure that every functionality available through the user interface is represented in the user interface as text.

IJ: Note that I'm talking about functionalities. Also, note that that text needn't be available at all times; just available at some time.

RS: What about basic colors?

JG: What if we scale this back to messages.

IJ: Note that we push to P2 the general case of user interface in 5.6. Do Windows guidelines talk about text equivalents of non-text controls?

DB: Yes, talks about item names.

Questions:
- How much has to be available through the UI?
- Just for messages? For all UI components?
- Does text meet the expectations of the WG?

DP: The reason we talked about messages was that they are transient. Maybe not available through an API.

Resolved: Ensure all non-text messages (e.g., prompts, alerts, etc.) available through the user interface are also represented in the user interface as text.

Action Ian:
- Ensure that techniques for this checkpoint talk about status bar.
- Incorporate proposal.
- Add rationale: if you're deaf blind you might need this (Braille display).


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