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WAI UA Telecon for June 9th, 1999


Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, June 9th
Time: 12:00 noon to 1:30 pm Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: W3C Tobin Bridge (+1) 617-252-7000


Agenda

Review of open action items

Review of open issues from the last 2 months

PROPOSED Saving form state: Saving filled in forms (Al) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0269.html

Proposed resolution: Discussion with group

PROPOSED: Need to support "until user agent" clauses from WCAG. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0150.html

Proposed resolution: add checkpoints to issued list

PROPOSED: Combine 6.1.9 and 6.1.11. Provide info in techniques doc. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0284.html Also, drop "fee link" part of example.

Resolution proposal: Document status information, see results in next draft

PROPOSED Checkpoint: Allow the user to search for content. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0284.html

Resolution Proposal: Already covered in 31 March draft

PROPOSED Checkpoint: for natural language http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0286.html

Resolution proposal: Checkpoint related to natural language Pirority 1 in Web Content and should have same level of attention in user agent guidelines for compatibility

PROPOSED priority change to 5.2.9 -> 1. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0285.html (Allow the user specify that audio descriptions of video be rendered at the same time as the video.)

5.2.8 [Priority 1] Allow the user to specify that captions or descriptions for video be rendered at the same time as the video.

5.2.9 [Priority 2] Allow the user to specify that audio descriptions of video be rendered at the same time as the video.

Resolution proposal: Merge 5.2.8 and 5.2.9 in 31 march draft

PROPOSED rewrite of 6.3.2 and 6.3.3 (CMN) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0284.html

6.3.2 [Priority 2] Alert the user when scripts or applets are executed.

6.3.3 [Priority 3] Provide information about document changes resulting from the execution of a script.

Resolution proposal: Include checkpoint related to notification of document changes

PROPOSED additional functionaility: Do you want to provide some audio feedback as to audio length, either before it plays, or when paused, etc. ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0230.html

Resolution proposal: Next document there will be better information on summary document. Do we need a checkpoint or more desciption in a technique about summary information?

PROPOSED additional functionaility: For searches, do you need to define "which" attributes can be used, given this is a priority #1 item ? (Also, proposed change to Pri 2). http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0230.html

Resolution proposal: Lets review after next working draft

PROPOSED Priority Change: 5.3.4 Allow the user to move the focus to a link based on its integer (tabbing-order) position, to Priority 2 since info accessible without it. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0230.html

Resolution proposal: Lets review after next working draft

PROPOSED select form control functionaility: Proposed advice in techniques about keyboard access to menus. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0276.html

Resolution proposed: Authoring issue

PROPOSED: Reorder guidelines according to importance of guideline. (Ian Jacobs)

Resolution proposal: Wait until guidelines more stable

PROPOSED: Need to give user final control over accesskey settings. UAGL shouldn't specify UA error behavior. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0084.html

Resolution proposal: User control over keyboard bindings related to 4.3.1 what do about access keys and final control similar to styles

PROPOSED deletion: 4.1.1: Ensure that the software may be installed in a device-independent manner using any supported input and output devices. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0185.html

Resolution proposal: Discussion at meeting

Agenda: [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0191.html


Attendance

Chair: Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Ian Jacobs

Present: Harvey Bingham
Denis Anson
Marja Koivunen
Glen Gordon
Charles McCathieNevile
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Jim Allan

Regrets: Mark Novak


Completed Action Items

Continued Action Items

New Action Items

Resolutions

Resoltuions can be found by searching for the text "resolutions"


Minutes

REVIEW OF OPEN ISSUES FROM THE LAST 2 MONTHS

1) ISSUE Saving form state: Saving filled in forms (Al) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0269.html

JG: Does persistence of information benefit accessibility?

GG: Doesn't seem like an accessibility issues.

DA: Would help somewhat with energy conservation.

RS: Difficult to implement since time-limit on forms often.

GG: Also security issues. Don't save your banking PIN.

RESOLVED: The WG doesn't consider this an accessibility issue.

2) PROPOSED: Need to support "until user agent" clauses from WCAG. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0150.html (See also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0286.html)

a) WCAG distinguish flicker (epilepsy problem) from blinking (screen reader problem).

IJ: Even if flicker is covered by scripts, should be indicated explicitly.

DA: Risky to say "get rid of flicker" without killing all scripts and applets.

RESOLVED: Since caused by scripts/applets, support for turning off/pausing/controlling covers this.

RESOLVED: Add to spec information specific to flicker and epilepsy.

b) RESOLVED: ADD checkpoint for "Use w3c specs" (Priority 2)

RESOLVED: No checkpoint for support of deprecated features

c) CMN: Why support lang? Contracting mechanisms in different languages differ. Contractions come out wrong if not marked up.

DA: I think should be priority 1 since otherwise gibberish.

CMN: Not sure of this.

GG: Jaws supports multiple languages.

Proposed: 1) Desktops expose 2) ATs indicate change in language.

Rich: Not all AT developers have resources to support multiple languages. If language supported, just deal with it, otherwise announce the change. (Techniques)

GG: I'm conflicted in importance. It's an item worth addressing. How often does it come up? How difficult is it to adapt? Can turn of Grade II braille if necessary. Grade II in American-English added to Jaws in recent months.

RESOLVED: a) ATs support language changes. Ensure that language information be part of information exchanged with desktop browsers. CF. Rich's techniques.

3) PROPOSED: Combine 6.1.9 and 6.1.11. Provide info in techniques doc. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0284.html

RESOLVED: Combine 6.1.9 and 6.1.11.

4) PROPOSED priority change to 5.2.9 -> 1. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0285.html

(Allow the user specify that audio descriptions of video be rendered at the same time as the video.)

5.2.8 [Priority 1] Allow the user to specify that captions or descriptions for video be rendered at the same time as the video.

5.2.9 [Priority 2] Allow the user to specify that audio descriptions of video be rendered at the same time as the video.

Resolution proposal: Merge 5.2.8 and 5.2.9 in 31 march draft

CMN: Case for merging them: for time-dependent equivalent content, synchronize with the video presentation. Lots of cases are priority one. But some cases fall away if you assume a single user. If you assume several people at the same presentation, lots more requirements.

DA: Synchronization important for someone with a learning disability.

JA: With SMIL 2, synchronization of multiple description tracks will be easier.

CMN: SMIL 1 doesn't really support audio descriptions.

RESOLVED:

a) Change priority of 5.2.9 to Priority 1. Change priority of 5.2.5 to Pri 1.

b) s/rendered at the same time as/synchronized with the presentation (The one on audio as well).

c) Merge 5.2.8/5.2.9 (adjust wording)

5) PROPOSED rewrite of 6.3.2 and 6.3.3 (CMN) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0284.html

6.3.2 [Priority 2] Alert the user when scripts or applets are executed.

6.3.3 [Priority 3] Provide information about document changes resulting from the execution of a script.

Resolution proposal: Include checkpoint related to notification of document changes

CMN:

  1. a) Base Notification (the document changed)
  2. b) Better Notification (where change occurred)

GG: In some cases, you have hidden fields where data is changing for form designer. This could be sent across as document changes...

GG: Caret changes less important, since can be detected. We find dynamic changes hard to track, notably if we move to the realm of caching data. Useful to know when the cache should be reconstructed.

IJ: Inform of changes to rendered content.

IJ: Read/Write/Change notification

JG: Need to tell AT of changes, but ATs also need to tell users about changes.

RS: I have concerns about annoying announcements.

CMN: I don't think we want to go into implementation issues.

GG: If I know that the user has pressed the key, and then I get information that the document changes, I could ignore the change since the user made the change through the AT's functionality.

MK: Does this mean that there is not notification at all when it's user-initiated?

CMN: Notification also varies in its severity.

RS: Maybe we should require that the AT maintain the state of the document. Allow the user to configure the AT to specify the level of information presented.

RS: Analogy: If two people were working on a remote document and changes reflected on both clients, you may or may not want to know about all changes.

DA: What about mouse position changes?

ACTION Ian: Move this to the list:

  1. a) What requirements on browser for notification of changes to AT?
  2. b) What required of AT to make these changes known to the user?

6) PROPOSED additional functionaility: Do you want to provide some audio feedback as to audio length, either before it plays, or when paused, etc. ? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999JanMar/0230.html

Resolution proposal: Next document there will be better information on summary document. Do we need a checkpoint or more desciption in a technique about summary information?

JA: Seems like an authoring thing: "This is a 15 Mbyte file."

IJ: But you could adjust playback rate and that wouldn't be valid.

Marja: Want relative information: how much viewed.

IJ: How does this information benefit accessibility?

GG: Marginally interesting, but so easy to abort in most cases. Or you can read progress in the dialog box.

Marja: You may want to advance to the middle of a file.

GG: This is more navigational, though. True, if you can navigate, knowing the dimensions helps.

IJ: Would be priority 3.

CONCLUSION: Re-examine after release of next guidelines.

7) New charter available! Will discuss next week. ACTION Jon: Send URL to group.


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