Chair: Jon
Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, August 12
Time: 11:00am to 12:00noon Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: +1-617-252-1038
11:00-11:30 Tables
11:30-11:55 Keyboard support issues
11:55-12:00 Action items and work assignments
Dennis Anson
Kitch Barnicle
Harvey Bingham
Judy Brewer
Daniel Dardailler
Jon Gunderson (Chair)
Markku T. Hakkinen
Kathy Hewitt
Ian Jacobs
Marja-Riitta Koivunen
Jim Allan
Napoleon Maou
Table Serialization WD update: HB, MH, KB, JG
Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in next telecon on August 26th
Keyboard acess WD udate: JG, DA
Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in next telecon on August 26th
jg: dd could you give us an overview of tables
dd: html 4.0 has new markup for tables and allows for semantic representations
tables used for layout
project at sofia on serialization of tables using a proxy server
navigation is more difficult problem to test with proxy server
da: 2 dimensional to 1 a diminsional table
dd: serialization of tables
hb: column by column rather than by line by line
kh: what about table and column header
how woul you designate column headers
dd: for each cell you can identify the column header, this can be repeated the renders
ij: in css there is a speak header
mk: you should able do it on the fly
dd: how much we can do in user agent. a proxy is limited
kh: this information could be exposed to user agent
dd: this an ideal case if other groups cooperated. the current project is a proxy.
jg: We maybe able to using a script in IE to test some of these principles
dd: I would like to know how this would be better than the proxy approach
jg: It may be able to support navigation
da: the cell relationsip information is important and should be preserved in some types of tables
dd: proxy is can do the same as script for serialization
da: could proxy add cell navigation through anchors
dd: it could be done, but it may clutter visual display
proxy can not provide navigation
hb: each cell has its own domain, units could indicate the number of row and colum cells
dd: proxy server approach will be reviewed by wai groups
user agent guideline implication need to be identified
kh: i need information on what the user needs
jg: repeated specs in current wd
dd: we have info from lynx and pwWebSpeak
da: there may be times that row by row is better than column by column
jb: what about having a do another way button or command
dd: support table semantics, second level, organization
Opera may implement turning off table display, simple serialization
Asking developers to make even simple changes requires testing
jg: move current selection
dd: Opera uses this technique already
supported by screen readers
What does screen reader do and what does screen reader do
da: dragon dictate does read tables
dd: screen readers provide support for reading selected text
da: screen readers
kb: screen readers are
jg: overview of current wd on direct selection
hb: twisties is another example
expanding and contracting lists of lists
da: explorer interface?
hb: look at higher level topics and search
jg: overview of direct navigation
mk: it is needed
da: pages are just weigh stations to somewhere else
dd: this can be done with dom, i have seen this
kb: not just a question of taking out links
mh: customization capability to move to specifuc html tag information, skip over advertising
kb: is it still sequential
mh: go to next markup target
jg: we could use pwWebSpeak
mh: we ship with different style sheets
mk: different pages want different
kb: looked at discussion list on voice input and people complain about tab interface
mh: phone interfaces can use audio style sheets
da: is this a problem for poorly designed WWW pages
mh: semantic information is already help
dd: UA WD doesn't have information about poor web design like "click here"
UA can do alot of potential things
da: what about image maps?
dd: client side you can do things and server side not much
client could look at URL title, for click heres
kh: performance woul suffer, page author guidelines
da: could it be a background task?
hw: browsers would be looking for stuff all the time and there would be performance problems. What would browsers need to look for?
poor use of network band width,
mh: It seems like a lot of work and potential performance problems
jb: Summary of keyboard navigation
Direct selection is a good idea in general
Selection of controls anchors vs. non-control and non-anchor elements
Use of HTML markup for direct selection
da: do we want acess to only well designed pages or what is really out there?
jg: gave tables for layout example as a similar problem
good bys