Minutes 2008-06

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SVG IG TeleConf: 2008-06-26


  • David Porter
  • Jeff Schiller
  • David Dailey
  • Robert Russell


Jeff Schiller, SVG IG Chair

  • works for Motorola in Chicago, IL, USA
  • blogger/hobbyist developer experimenting with SVG prototypes, games, testing, evangelism
  • interested in growing the Open Web Stack
  • interested in improving the tools for hobbyist programmers (reduce hand-coding keyTimes, path commands, etc)

David Porter

  • Boeing company, IT segment in Bellevue, WA, USA
  • began with simple business graphics, a number of use cases within Boeing are fulfilled by SVG
  • looking for vendors (Microsoft among them) to support standards

David Dailey

  • computer science professor in Pennsylvania, USA
  • course: "Interface Design" which moved from HTML DOM to SVG DOM
  • also "dabble in art" and human factors research
  • also, 8 years ago involved in a big VML project (client-side)

Robert Russell

  • invited expert, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
  • involved web design, started svgbasics.com (teach ppl how to code SVG by hand) and getsvg.com (community)
  • more recently involved in server-side web development
  • interested in contributing to a SVG website in an effort to grow the community

Discussion on SVG IG

Jeff Schiller: I don't want the SVG IG to become simply a forum for 'gripe'. I don't want the SVG IG to become simply spectators or commentors on things going on around us. I want us to be about getting things done with the resources we have. I want us to effect change and provide value back to the community and to the specification.

Discussion on SVG IG Membership

David Porter: Can we get increased vendor support in the IG or WG? (Microsoft, Mozilla, Apple, Opera)

Jeff Schiller: Two Opera employees already in the SVG IG

David Dailey: HTML WG, co-chair is Chris Wilson (IE main guy) and is aware of the need for SVG.

David Porter: Tim O'Reilly, Jonathan Watt or Robert Longson for Mozilla? Dave Hyatt for Apple?

Rob Russell: In terms of vendor adoption - one example to look at is RSS. Once RSS really took off, Microsoft had no choice and embraced the standard. If we can generate enough interest, it helps to push the browsers forward.

David Dailey: Can we compile a list of ppl who we should invite to join and then directly email them?

Action 1: David Dailey to compile a list of people to invite to join the SVG IG.

Discussion on Time allocation

Jeff Schiller: I've struck an agreement with my employer that I will be spending 4-8 hours a week on the SVG IG. This type of arrangement really helps me organize my time and avoids me having to fit in SVG IG work when I have free time. Just a suggestion. Of course the amount of time will vary depending on the situation.



Jeff Schiller: This activity is one of the more important ones. We will be harnessing the brains of Jonathan Chetwynd and other accessibility experts to put together a W3C Note about the challenges, opportunities and best practices for accessibility within the SVG format.

Jeff Schiller: I'd also like to see a comprehensive analysis of browser capabilities today and then open and track bugs related to this. One data point: What's the proper way to get a tooltip to show up cross-browser on an SVG element (<title> element? xlink:title on a <a>? Firefox even supports the title attribute on any element)

Jeff Schiller: Accessibility has three flavours: a) accessible to those with physical/mental needs, b) internationalization and c) machine accessibility (semantics). One of the activities I'll be most interested is trying to determine what is the best approach for search engines to index SVG content. It would be great to go to Google Image Search and be able to search available SVG images.

Rob Russell: I like SVG for rich, interactive applications but it will be also great when SVG is supported with the <image> tag in all the browsers.

Jeff Schiller: I believe Opera and now Safari 3.1 support <image> for SVG - it's still a "TODO" for Firefox.

David Dailey: I think Google Image Search is a great idea.

Action 2: Jeff to contact Jonathan to start this activity.


Jeff Schiller: Idea is to tap designers and get their (perhaps non-technical) perspectives on what features SVG should have (what cool effects, what gradients, etc)

Rob Russell: Could we get ahold of 'advanced css' bloggers or developers who use CSS to get the 'designer' perspectives? People who delve in the CSS Zen Garden?

Jeff Schiller: Doug also has the initiative to start a local chapter of the SVG IG in Japan - apparently the opportunity in the mobile space is big there.


David Dailey: "Layout" is mentioned as one possible activity. What kind of use cases?

Jeff Schiller: From my perspective, it comes down to User Interface. Don't force the designer to manually position elements, etc.

Rob Russell: Some of this can be solved today using XSLT to generate SVG to alleviate absolute positioning.

Jeff Schiller: Agreed. But this is not a 'live' solution that adapts to dynamic changes in the UI.


Jeff Schiller: Develop and strengthen a SVG community website (svg.org is the likely candidate).

David Dailey: One of the many benefits will be to cross-pollinate our own understanding and share information.

Jeff Schiller: Yes, both Doug and I had envisioned using community site to share knowledge, best practice, tutorials, etc. Also, the idea is to build up a wiki-like resource. Another option is to contribute SVG pages to Google DocType, to which Mark Pilgrim has offered to give me offline access.

Action 3: Jeff and Rob to contact Doug about svg.org (what is the hosting situation, can we get a Drupal installation bootstrapped on a sub-domain and start cobbling pieces together?)

Going Forward

Jeff Schiller: Hopefully next meeting we'll have larger attendance! :)

Action 4: David Dailey and David Porter to create an account on the SVG IG wiki and request edit permissions from Doug or Jeff.

Action 5: David Dailey, David Porter, Rob Russell to fill in information at Participants.

Action 6: Jeff to talk with Doug about next call (need to ensure a longer lead time for maximum attendance).