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In ARIA 1.0 draft, role="presentation" is as synonym for "no role": [*] ]] the presentation role causes a given element to be treated as having no role [ snip ] <!-- 2. There is no implicit role for span, so only the contents are exposed. --> <span> Sample Content </span> <!-- 3. This role declaration is redundant. --> <span role="presentation"> Sample Content </span> [[ [*] http://www.w3.org/WAI.new/PF/aria/complete#presentation However, looking at the weak and strong ARIA tables [*][#], (and also, having followed your justifications in the bugs), it is clear that "no role" in those tables are used in another meaning of the word, namely to indicate that ARIA does not have a fitting role to offer. [*] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/content-models#table-aria-weak [#] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/content-models#table-aria-strong To have no role is, in ARIA's terminology, equal to be a <span> element or perhaps a <div>. Thus, in order to avoid misunderstanding and mixing of concepts, consider using another wording. My proposal is "unmapped" or "unmappable". Note that it is not possible to say "presentation", as "presentation" is used in order to negate an implicit role: ]] An element whose implicit native role semantics will not be mapped to the accessibility API. [[
<bikeshed>Maybe "no corresponding ARIA role"?</bikeshed>
(In reply to comment #1) > <bikeshed>Maybe "no corresponding ARIA role"?</bikeshed> A bit long, but totally OK and clear.
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html Status: Rejected Change Description: no spec change Rationale: The "strong native semantics" of "no role" means that the role="" attribute is not specified implicitly and must not be specified explicitly. The element literally has no role. This seems clear to me. If it's not clear then I guess reopen the bug and I'll just cross-reference all the occurrences of "No role" to a paragraph that says this.
The bug-triage sub-team thinks this is important, but does not require the attention of the whole task force as the ARIA mapping sub-team is able to deal with it and take the appropriate steps.
(In reply to comment #3) > Status: Rejected > Change Description: no spec change > Rationale: The "strong native semantics" of "no role" means that the role="" > attribute is not specified implicitly and must not be specified explicitly. The > element literally has no role. This seems clear to me. > > If it's not clear then I guess reopen the bug and I'll just cross-reference all > the occurrences of "No role" to a paragraph that says this. It would be a good idea to create such a cross-reference as you suggest.
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html Status: Accepted Change Description: see diff given below Rationale: Concurred with reporter's comments.
Checked in as WHATWG revision r6122. Check-in comment: Define 'no role' more explicitly. http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=6121&to=6122
Oops, I just noticed this got reassigned to Steve for some reason. If this was intentional, please feel free to reopen the bug. (I don't see a comment explaining why it got reassigned.)
mass-moved component to LC1
resolved , removed a11y keywords
REOPENING: Ian’s solution did not change the "no role" name. He simply re-explained it and in a confusing way. Thus reopening. JUSTIFICATION: (1) The fragment URI (#concept-role-none) hints that a concept is being explained. However, the definition says that "no role" means one thing for features with 'strong native semantics' and another thing for features with a "default implicit ARIA role". This is confusing because: a) the strong table makes clear the it actually list features with a "default implicit ARIA role" (that have the *additional* feature of being "strong native semantics"). Thus, the definition in reality applies to the features with strong native semantics as well. b) as told in bug 20696, if anything specific ought to be said about whether strong native semantics features can take the presentation role, then this should be said inside the section about strong semantics and not in the section about weak/default implicit semantics. (2) The importance of a term that preferably is shared/defined by ARIA too, has increased since I filed this bug, due to the fact that HTML5 and ARIA now use the same definition of "strong native semantics" and "default implicit ARIA role". (Since Ian resolved this bug, those wordings has been equipped with a link to their definitions.) (3) As explained in bug 20696: If anything has to be said about whether features that have "no (ARIA-defined) role" as their strong native semantics can take presentation role too, then this ought to be said inside the section about Strong Native Semantics rather than inside the section about Implicit ARIA semantics. PROPOSAL: #1. Replace "no role" with another wording. Proposed wording: "not an ARIA-defined role" or: "no ARIA-defined role" The term shoud be found together with the the ARIA spec community so the two specs can use a shared definition. #2. Make the text a definition of "not an ARIA-defined role" *alone*! Thus *remove* the explanation of the (possible) consequences for strong vs "weak" semantics. Proposed rewording: ]] The entry "not an ARIA-defined role" means that the user agent has no default mapping to ARIA roles. (However, it probably will have its own mappings to the accessibility layer.) [[
(In reply to comment #11) My preferred wordingf is "no ARIA-defined role" since "not an ARIA-defined role" hints that it can be a "by something else defined role", which might not be the correct signal to send.
In second comment of bug 20699, I clarify where the definition should optimally be located.
Hi leif, I took the advice you already provided into account when making the decision to close this bug: please note the requirements for re-opening "If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug."
Just a note. In ARIA 1.1 we plan to fill the gaps. This would be aligned with HTML 5.1.
After the facts documented in this bug, Steve has made other changes relating to the definition of 'no rolle', which to me make 'no role' more OK, see bug 20696. What Rich say is also positive. So confirming as closed.
note i tweaked the definition of 'no role' in relation to strong native semantics as it the statement "that the user agent has no default mapping to ARIA roles. (However, it could have its own mappings to the accessibility layer.)" is equally applicable to strong as it is to implicit.
(In reply to comment #17) > note i tweaked the definition of 'no role' in relation to strong native > semantics as it the statement > > "that the user agent has no default mapping to ARIA roles. (However, it > could have its own mappings to the accessibility layer.)" > > is equally applicable to strong as it is to implicit. commit for above change: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/a4845e96b7fbdeb07363c2a9567c9dac59f1a9fc