Meeting minutes
Is anyone else having trouble joining the meeting? The "Join the meeting" button is no longer visible in my W3C calendar invite.
<Becca_Monteleone> Lisa, Eric and I are currently in the Zoom
Can you please share the zoom link here in IRC? Or reply to the email I sent to COGA? I can't get in without a zoom link.
Scheduling survey results
https://
Based on the current survey results, looks like the preference is to start at 9am ET.
ACTION: item: julierawe to ask Jan if the 9am start time works for her.
Filling in the ”COGA member contact info” section of this doc
I added a section to our planning doc so people can add their contact info:
Adding this contact info will make it easy for COGA members to collaborate with each other.
WCAG 3 provision survey 01
<Lisa> take up item 8
I added the video link for the presentation so people can watch at any time.
<Lisa> close item 8
take up item 3
WCAG 3 provision survey 01
Responses due March 18th
See Alastair’s March 4th email titled “WCAG 3 provision survey 01” for more details
Survey link: https://
The survey asks about three provisions that have been updated (in google docs) since the working draft was published: Flashing, Text detectable, and Custom keys are documented
Lisa I think people will get lost. This is not doable. I don't think we have time to do these monthly surveys at the same we are doing the holistic review of all of WCAG 3.
julierawe Flashing is in the survey and is also in the section that Eric_hind is currently reviewing.
Lisa I think this is a discussion: Do we want to do these surveys as they come out?
Lisa I think it's a good idea to alert Eric that one of the provisions in the survey is in his section.
Eric_hind is not a member of AG and so cannot participate in the survey.
Lisa maybe spend 5 minutes telling people what's in the survey and COGA members can respond if they want to.
Lisa People can go for it or not.
Eric_hind maybe I'll present something next week for 5 minutes.
Scheduling the next guideline
Lisa There is a lot of overlap between "Error Handling" and "Process and Task Completion."
Lisa It made sense to understand both sections.
<Lisa> next item
Lisa I don't think we can schedule another section just yet. But we have the next 3 to 4 weeks scheduled.
Lisa We have a COGA label for GitHub.
<Lisa> next item
Lisa In terms of a spreadsheet, I don't think we are ready to discuss a spreadsheet for COGA. Eric and I need another week to work on this and also to work with Jan on this.
Lisa For the spreadsheet, we need to see what's involved in the review process before we create a tracker spreadsheet for COGA.
Lisa Eric started on "Animation and Movement." I also started on "Error Handling."
Lisa "Animation and Movement" is a short section. "Images and Media" is a much longer section with several subsections.
Lisa "Error Handling" is also short. It's not as short as "Animation and Movement."
Lisa Eric and I did not coordinate, which means we have very different approaches. I think it will be helpful to see the different approaches he and I took.
Lisa I don't know if we want to jump right in or give an overview.
julierawe Did Eric use AI to help get started on his section review?
<Lisa> notebook LM
Eric_hind Yes, I used NotebookLM to help get started.
Lisa I'll give an overview of my process so people can have it in mind as we do a deep dive on yours.
Lisa I started by looking at the overlap between sections in Julie's presentation.
Lisa is discussing the "Error Handling" tab in our COGA review of WCAG 3 doc: Flashing
Text detectable
Custom keys are documented
oops, wrong thing was pasted into the minutes
Here is the link to the "Error Handling" tab: https://
Lisa made a table for each guideline in her section.
Lisa also separately created a list of user needs in her tab.
julierawe Did you check the Editor's Draft to see if there are any exploratory provisions that aren't showing up in the working draft, which only shows developing provisions?
Lisa Yes, and I noted there are not exploratory provisions in my section.
Eric_hind I started by looking at Julie's overview presentation.
Eric_hind Wherever I saw a new definition, I noted that in case people may not be expecting that definition.
Eric_hind "Animation and Movement" is all about doing no harm.
Eric_hind It is a small section.
Eric_hind There is a core requirement where flashing is not allowed unless it is essential. There is a supplemental provision where no flashing is allowed at all (no exceptions).
Eric_hind All of the provisions in this section are at the developing level, none are at the exploratory level.
Eric_hind I wasn't sure what to do with the assertions.
Lisa I think we should make a GitHub issue about assertions.
Lisa Where is the content you think is missing?
LenB Something that is missing from this section is something that Tiffany and Charles Hall are asking for, and it's the use of diagnonal lines.
Eric_hind Maybe diagonal lines should be included in a definition?
LenB The subgroup working on this section was surprised to know that some visuals can cause migraines, etc.
LenB How might we suggest changing the definition?
julierawe This section includes a provision about visual motion that includes "pseudomotion."
Lisa We could ask for that "pseudomotion" to include diagonal lines.
Lisa If we want to make a practical suggestion, we could suggest expanding the definition of "pseudomotion" to include diagonal lines.
LenB The defintion of "pseudomotion" is exploratory, which means it needs more work.
<Zakim> Lisa, you wanted to ask about safety paper is not inclusded. AND trigger warning may often be harmful
<Lisa> photesncity
Lisa Is photosensitivity mentioned?
Lisa I think I was in that group for a while, and I gave them a recommendation about trigger warnings that trigger warnings need to be able to be turned off.
julierawe suggested that we submit a GitHub issue to make the trigger warning optional and present COGA research that indicates seeing a trigger warning can cause harm to some individuals.
julierawe also noted that there is a "Visual stimulation" provision at the exploratory level that may be getting at the issue of photosensitivity without using that exact term.
Lisa Where are the issue raised in COGA's safety paper about the emotional harm?
Lisa Also what about distractions?
Lisa Talk us through the issues you've found so far with the user needs.
Eric_hind
Eric_hind I asked NotebookLM to suggest issues for us to raise. Julie and Lisa have reviewed the AI suggestions.
Eric_hind The first issue is adding user controls. WCAG 3 has a separate section on "User Controls," which is fairly light right now.
Lisa Where is autoplay?
Eric_hind It's a little fuzzy to me what are geniune issue vs what are definitions that need improving.
Eric_hind went through each of the issues raised in his tab of the document.
Lisa reiterated that trigger warnings should be optional
Lisa We suggested a global one-time setting so users can say whether they do or don't want to see trigger warnings.
Lisa We should share our draft pattern with this WCAG 3 subgroup.
Lisa Our draft pattern about trigger warnings for the next version of Making Content Usable.
<julierawe> +1 to suggesting a global setting
Eric_hind I agree that putting it in one issue will get it on the table.
ack "visual, stimulation"
Does anyone know how to get rid of this zakim issue about visual stimulation?
Lisa From our initial suggestion, we thought we were missing all the findings in the Safety issue paper.
Lisa That could be an assertion for testing.
Lisa I provided it to the subgroup, I put things in their tabs, it just wasn't done.
zakkm, delete speaker queue
julierawe suggested tailoring GitHub issues for each section that include information about our Safety paper rather than submitting an issue that might apply to many sections.
Lisa There are other ways you can cause physical harm in a website.
Lisa The WCAG 3 section on risks that covers social risks -- that puts kids at physical risk. That's in the risk section (currently titled "Policy and Protection).
Lisa This is why I think the "Animationa and Movement" guidelines is too short. It just says "Prevent physical harm," but it is actually limited to physical harm caused by animation and movement, not by, say, social media that exposes kids to predators.
Lisa The scope should be clear out of context.
Lisa Let's go back and do the cognitive buckets
Lisa We need to speak with Rachael about how to share information about which user needs are not being addressed.
Lisa What APA asks for is something very concrete, such as I would like to change this definition in this way, and explain why.
Lisa If there is a user need that has not been addressed, we can raise that.
Lisa added a "Missing" section to Eric's tab
<Eric_hind> Reduced distractions only in https://
The queue isn't working, by the way.
Lisa: Perception and Processing would be relevent - speed, pausing and controlling speed.
Lisa: How do we then draft this? Julierawe mentioned that we need to strongly differentiate little issue, major concerns
Lisa: Issue templates - either per Eric's issue generation or via Template for issues in github.
Lisa: Next, work on issues, margin comments.
Eric_hind: may be a few minutes late to the rejoining of the meeting
<Lisa> reviced templayte
<Lisa> Issue short name: (Try and make this unique and descriptive.) Cognitive Accessibility for -----
<Lisa> Issue 1: →
<Lisa> NOTE:
<Lisa> Issue Description:
<Lisa> User Story:
<Lisa> About the user:
<Lisa> Acceptance Criteria:
<Lisa> 1
<Lisa> See also (include research)
Lisa: Not every issue will have a user story.
julierawe: We will use the term Recommendations rather than Acceptance Criteria
julierawe: We can add better heading structure to help search as well
Jennifer: Suggest change of section header to Why the user finds this inaccessible. julierawae suggests updating User Need to User Need Missing or Not Adequately Addressed
Lisa: Suggests an issue flow of "User need missing or not adequately addressed, then followed by More Details. julierawe agrees for now and we may fill this out or change in the future.
julierawe: Ideally we will use the Issue Short Name as the github issue title and the rest of the text will be the issue content
julierawe: a note section would be useful to account for our thoughts on where things could/should be
julierawe: Recommends always including links where they exist - specific anchors/relevent sections
julierawe: Review of issues to make them follow the template