Meeting minutes
<janina> /join #rqtf
Agenda Review & Announcements
janina: Pretty much a standard agenda.
janina: Who#s CSUNing?
Fazio: Me!
SteveF: Not I.
SteveF: WCAG-EM has come out in a new version as an initial draft. It's version 2. Anyone interested in reviewing it and filing issues, making comments: have at it!
SteveF: Comments will be forthcoming.
SteveF: Hidde, who is co-editing the whoel shebang, writes a lot about the WCAG-EM and has a lot of information. Hidde de Vries.
SteveF: Hidde and Jeroen work for the Dutch governmennt, just on the off chance you didn't know.
Spec review requests
css-color-adjust-1
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: Main question here is to touch base and to see if anyone wants to take this up. We're looking for an asignee.
janina: Let's move on for now.
PaulG: We need people who use Windows and preferably those using the a11y features: forced colours, high contrast mode tec.
<SteveF> WCAG-EM https://
<SteveF> Issues https://
PaulG: MOst of it seems to be about allowing authors to create little islands in CSS that won't be forcd or changed in order to protect CI et.al.
janina: We'll see if we can find a temporary hadn-lender for this outside of APA.
Accessibility Implementation Guidelines (DVB BlueBook A185)
janina: The Blue Book. DVB.
janina: I'm eager to get this off my plate/chest/whatever before I leave for CSUn.
<janina> tracking: https://
<SteveF> WCAG-EM 2.0 lets you report on accessibility of more than just websites - article by Hidde de vries https://
<janina> Fredrik: Feel it needs more "flesh," more depth
<janina> Fredrik: more substantial examples
Fredrik: I'd lek to see more concrete examples, more flesh on the skeleton. I'll post on the coment thread about it.
janina: We'll talk omre about it.
CSS Anchor Positioning Level 1
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: Any news? Not sure of our status here other than "overdue" in general.
PaulG: There is some concern from Marcelo about zoomign while a apopover was open so having the anchor positioning respond... As things change shape in the viewport we can respond to that.
PaulG: Matthew put a link in the issue to a Google Doc that he made for changes to this.
PaulG: My main concern was that there was a mention of ARIA attribues not in wide use because of slim support by AT.
PaulG: Comments and questions on the GDoc.
Eric_hind: I'll spend some time on that this week
Selectors Level 4
<janina> request: w3c/
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: THis one we're not late on!
janina: NOt sure of the status other than that there's a July date on this one.
PaulG: Actually, a little unsure of what this is now. Seems to be pointing to several things. I have to dig aroudn a little.
PaulG: We generally don't care about selectors because they are a dev tool to point at elements on the page which should have nothing to do with a11y related stuff.
PaulG: It's either making it easier or possible to target specific elements for CSS or scripting and that is using the browser's selector engine. It could open up/make thigns easier ofr a11y to work. But the only thing I am aware of is that there was some talk about modifying some of the selectors within things like ARIA descriptions and labels
where you can put a selector in instead of an ID. This should not raise any alarms, though.
janina: Thsi seems to be the IDREF discussion coming up again.
PaulG: Yep, seems so.
PaulG: The hurdle with IDREFs vof devs is that in the modern frameworkized and componentized UIs, IDs are tricky because lots of islands may pop up. You need different levels of IDs and pass the information up and down the stack. I need to find the right controller and the right knowledge may not be evident. It is hassled and frzzled. a11y
conscious devs have worked out some hacks ot make it work, but it feels lke working aroudn a11y rather htan for it. That should obviously not be so. Therefore they are asking to put in selectors instead of IDs because they can be used across components. All this to sy that this may move foward at some point with or without our say-so.
janina: I don't think particularly deeply about selectors usually except when I want to make things jump out in a docuemtn for people looking at a screen. But I do care deeply about pointing to a subsection of a document which I want to talk about.
janina: There should jsut be a locating pointer if you want a particular thing to discuss or refer to.
PaulG: There are a couple of use cases where advances in selectors are pointing to gaps in AT. You can select text, highlight it for editing, and that is not really well exposed thorugh AT. But they have added CSS pseudo-classes that devs can target those elements and subsets of text with sleectors. THey would have to come up with some other
examples to describe it for AT. Another example would be autofill.
PaulG: If you autofill a form, ou can provide an autofill CSS pseudo-calass so that both scriptiong and CSS can make it known that this was provided with autofill. If you wanted to distinguish that with AT, you can't since this is not expoesedd elsewise.
Eric_hind: We'll need somethign for AI generated very soon as well, I guess.
janina: A11y is a source of a lot fo good ideas. COGA has been mulling over indicating AT content as opposed to human generated content.
Issue tracking
Seek Accessibility input
<janina> source: w3c/vc-confidence-method#24
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: I'm not familiar with this.
janina: This might be fully new in fact.
PaulG: Glancing at this, there's things, one example, Confidence Method biometric image, and so forth. But no descriptions.
PaulG: The not having descriptions part withtout alternative text is something we can jump at.
janina: Some low-haning fruit there.
PaulG: You'll have to have the capability.
PaulG: I'm going to also say that there are some other techniques here like JSLN WEbkey or multikey and these are just long hashtrings of characters. That would be seemingly a nuuissance for someone who's trying to verify things who can't see the screen. There should be some way to convert that to something that is human readable or audible. Some
other sort of presentation layer. If I were to say that this is my key and I'm calling my key Fido. Anytime I'm looking at my key and it's intepreted backk through the filter I've added, it should tell me Fido. If it tells me something else through that which I've made on my side, I konw it isn't my key. It needs to be part of the conersation about
hwo these credentials are supposed to be used.
PaulG: This is short and sweet as far as confidnece methods go, and I don't know enough about the space, but we should get some discussion on it.
janina: This eems wothy enough on its own.
janina: We're talking authenticationand the exchange of somethign that makes the other end sure that it is you and not a bot or someone else.
<PaulG> https://
janina: NOt only am I unsure who's asking, but I'm unsure what to fil in since I don't know who's asking.
Fredrik: Then there's AAC.
janina: We shoudl provide space for that, too.
janina: Its a good time to ask for wide or small stuff.
janina: Anyone else on Conficence?
WG New Spec: Scroll-Triggered Animations
<janina> source: w3ctag/design-reviews#1167
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: Matthew sends his regrets. He will do his little authoring task soon.
PaulG: I have a love-hate relationship with this one.
PaulG: What they're asking for is mechanisms to do somehting that people already do with JS. Can it ibe done in an accessible way? A lot of the content is off screen. If you're reading it with a SR it doesn't change anything as longa s the off screen text... it will animate in as you scroll the page. I don't know. One of my concerns is how that
would work if you just let the AT read. Does it believe that the content stops or that there needs to be some interactino beore the rest ist loaded and does it still make sense?
PaulG: If this is going to simplify for the author, this will standardise how the sausage gets made on both authro and consumer ends. My concern is that they may use it for carousels. There just isn't a straightforward croll-triggered animations, give me an example, and let's get through these examples. If there are devices it doesn't work well
with, this needs to be noted. Teh demos have been mixed since they keep jumping ahead and shove this feature into thigns like carousels.
janina: That all makes a lo of sense. It sounds wirthy of promotion into CSS.
PaulG: This is a long issue and I don't see big demo signs.
PaulG: They are telling a lot but showing little.
janina: We're looking for aan implementaiton that demonstrates the functionality.
PaulG: They have to have already implemented the feature in a browser bhinda flag. Tehy can prototype what it might look likewith JS but this is the issue...
PaulG: If the dmeo doesn't work with AT or keyboard or what have you, we will raise issues and/or hell.
PaulG; Spoil me.
janina: I think that would be worthy fo an APA comment.
PaulG: In our a11y/trackign I will author a comment and if that gets approved, move it to the general issue.
Coordinates of keyboard-driven click events
<janina> source: whatwg/html#12117
<janina> tracking: w3c/
Fredrik: +1
Fredrik: Sometimes the grass is Grenier.
PaulG: If someone has a better idea of how to make this more private but without all these problesm, then be my guest.
janina: WE have consensus on the call to elevate this!
Review the process for creating the WSG checklist to design one that is accessible
<janina> source: w3c/sustainableweb-wsg#217
<janina> tracking: w3c/
janina: Jennifer is the one who would introduce this.
Fredrik: Interested!
janina: Please assign Fredrik to this.
CSS Update (Paul)
PaulG: NOt much. API wars.
PaulG: The naming of things.
Fredrik: And cats?