Meeting minutes
<wendyreid> https://
Guidance for chairs on writing warnings as mentioned
https://
wendy: Getting ready for chairs training. Content largely unchanged. Added some minutes to talk about patent policy.
Added some minutes to talk about patent policy.
… Discussed improving the written info. Want to be able to point the chairs at the guide.
… We have this page now. Want to add info on how to address things like warnings.
wendy: Want to give guidance on how to approach conduct issues. Chairs have a lot more power than they realize, to handle things in the moment.
jen: Do we have something drafted?
wendy: No.
jen: Recent experience in two groups where things blew up, and wish that chairs we better prepared for it.
… Chairs are people in privilege, both as chairs and their place in society that made them become chairs, so they lack ways to responsibly address things.
<Zakim> amy, you wanted to note conflict is hard, I'd love to some conflict resolution training
amy: No need to apologize for speaking. Conflict is really hard, to watch and know what to do in the moment.
… Happens in daily life also, unless you've gone through thought experiment or training. Hard to know what to do.
… Watching people who are supposed to be chairing, not do something, often makes things worse. I wish I had more training on this.
… Who here feels like they know what to do, in case of conflict?
hidde: Ready issues. Anything specific you think was missed in the chairs training?
jen: I'll provide comments after I look at it.
… Concern is that chairs don't go to chairs training, or don't pay attention to it.
… When people have problems and need guidance, there should be a place to find it.
hidde: In addition to chairs training, which they might not attend, need participatnt training also?
… Understand the issues, but really hard to present them. Should try though.
wendy: one section I'm excited to present is the conflict ID and deescalation section.
<JenStrickland> jory burson
wendy: Mostly based on Jory Burson's training.
wendy: most people dont' get training on conflict, or recognize what a healthy resolution would look like.
… Plan is that first round of chairs training will not be mandatory, but eventually will be mandatory.
wendy: For participant side, we did it in the past at TPAC, but not well attended.
… Think we could round out the guide with "How to be a good Participant"
… Want to encourage people to be adult.
… Conflict w happen. Instead of being afraid of it, prob better to be aware of when it happens and resolve it instead of letting peopel get stressed out and afraid.
… Calling each other in. We'll butt heads, but should be done respectfully and come out of the room peacefully.
amy: Some golden hour recurring time for meeting slots?
<wendyreid> w3c/
<wendyreid> w3c/
Issues proposed for closing
wendy: Both of these issue fit really well into training.
… Prob a lot easier to address these issues behaviorally. Difficult to put into CoC in a way that meets stds of balance and enforceable.
jen: There was a PWE mtg where you and tzviya could not attend. And others and I discussed one of these issues.
… Concern is that people who are not privileged are really struggling. Really hard. I'm not the only one who has had dark spots because of bad behavior by privileged folks at W3C
… Love for people to have a place for the hurdles of tech experience to ... It's the world that we're living in.
… Want to find a way for people encountering these barriers to be respected and heard. Can't make everything inclusive. There must be another way we can do this so they have what they need.
… Maybe a research thing of collecting conversations w these people. We're losing a lot of people who have a lot to offer because of these issues.
wendy: PWE is one of the hardest things. All of us are aware of things that have happened. Whisper network. Rarely direct. Bothers me. But don't have sufficient details. One person? Several? Chairs? Without that info we can't do what we should be doing. Don't know how to address it.
wendy: PWE is one of the hardest things. All of us are aware of things that have happened. Whisper network. Rarely direct. Bothers me. But don't have sufficient details. One person? Several? Chairs? Without that info we can't do what we should be doing. Don't know how to address it.
jen: Things I've mentioned have been reported. They happened because we don't have enough things documented or guided. Maybe also because W3C contacts are stretched.
… Maybe PWE doesn't have access?
<Zakim> amy, you wanted to mention longer term project
<amy> The Crisis of Rudeness: Why Incivility Is Rising and How It Harms Our Health
amy: Longer term project abt civility in lists. Some is reflected in mtgs. There was an interesting article abt how conflict rudeness or anger takes a toll. Article was shared by Katrina. Some of this project is on positive and negative types of conflict, and us vs them thinking.
… Much of it maps to what is in our CoC. Some of it comes down to reminding people again and again, things we've outlined. CoC has been remarkably on point w the research.
… Crosstalk, interrupts, power difference (invisible to those who wield them).
hidde: Re it being invisible, can be addressed in the chairs training, to make them aware of it.
… Wonder a report goes? Are there further actions?
… Someone had a chat w TEechuitabe, but heard nothing more from it.
<amy> great point, Hidde re: resolution. reporting back is maybe not yet in the procedures?
hidde: I don't feel trained to give the right response.
<amy> to ask what resolution feels like - esp from those who report
hidde: Can we make the reports go someplace to take action?
wendy: Tequitable's primary role is to be a sounding board and advise. They have resources and library of applicable documents to different scenarios.
… They've told us that they won't tell W3C about every instance of someone talking to them. They send info on trends.
… It goes to W3C staff. Exception if something is really serious.
… Need to make that clearer. If they're expecting that a staff member w talk to them. Need to encourage them to go to the team.
jen: I've reached out to tequitable. It's a person to talk to. LIke a shoulder. I made reports first to chairs, next to staff contact, then tequitable and formal complaint.
… I said I don't need followup, i just want it not to continue. But I think that was a mistake. I should have asked for followup.
hidde: Team member could get involved if they think it serious. Should guidance say that you should ask the team member to get involved if wanted.
… Maybe people do not expect to need to ask for team member to be involved.
<Zakim> amy, you wanted to wonder if hearing back in some (non-privacy invasive form) is part of resolution https://
hidde: Also shold clarify tequitable's roles.
amy: Found frustrating earlier when I heard problems: It would just go into the ether. Didn't even have an ombuds program at that time.
… Have a concern that things should not just go into the ether.
… Wondered if people feeling disempowered. Talked to the chairs, but no record of what they were supposed to do.
… Need to keep privacy, but some reporting back would be reassuring if someone yelled at me in a call, want to know the people took it seriously.
… "I spoke w them, and xyz"
… Have a slight sense that knowing you will report back brings some accountability.. I linked to the part of the process that says what happens, and you might not hear anything back. Wonder if some response would be good.
<Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to comment on the volunteer problem
<amy> at MIT we had people who were mandatory reporter
wendy: Another challenge: volunteer problem. W3C has proces and roles, which are getting clearer, but how do we talk to people? Who is responsible? CoC is by volunteers, AB is volunteers.
… But should go to Christine and Katrina on these things.
… But on investigating, we hit the wall of what is appropriate for us to do, vs team.
amy: Team neutrality is seen as a big plus, but some members treat team as working for them.
<Zakim> JenStrickland, you wanted to suggest that W3C staff may need training/coaching on communication around conflict
jen: Could be helpful for W3C staff to have training about conflict.
… They're stretched thin and lacking the support they need. Training is not always the answer.
… Are they having helpful 1:1s with their superiors. Worry about them being burned out.
wendy: Okay to close those issues?
jen: No. Need something.
<Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to say I made a small suggested improvement
dbooth: I did make a suggestion for one thing that might be an improvement for one of the issues, based on comments here, there might be something we can do
… I'm sympathetic to the cause of the issues.
… I prefer more orderly meeting styles over people talking over each other, but there are cultural considerations.
wendy: I know we can't put it in the CoC, because of cultural considerations, enthusiasm. Comes down to mutual respect and treating each other as grown-ups.
amy: Lovely thing that scribe is able to say "Please slow down, or repeat that".
… Wonder if we could offer that same thing to other
wendy: How to be a good participant
<hdv> +1 wendyreid
amy: We have existing processes and socialization. Scribes can say this. When we start sharing these things, people may not even know it was available.
ADJOURNED
dbooth+