Meeting minutes
Review agenda and next meeting dates
Review agenda and next meeting dates
Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as planned
Matt_King: No CG meeting: Wednesday September 24
Matt_King: Next CG meeting: Thursday October 2
Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday October 13
Current status
Matt_King: We went from 17 plans in candidate review to 18 plans
Matt_King: Thanks to all the people who helped the latest plan advance, "Disclosure of Answers to Frequently Asked Questions"
Matt_King: We had previously placed "Disclosure Navigation Menu Example" on hold, but I believe that's ready to move forward, now
Matt_King: We could use someone to review w3c/
Matt_King: But we can re-assign to someone else at Bocoup if necessary
Running test plan for Disclosure Navigation Menu Example
Matt_King: For this one, NVDA and VoiceOver are complete, but we're looking for two testers for JAWS
Matt_King: I ran the bot last night, so the test plan should be ready to be assigned
Matt_King: Do we have any volunteers?
IsaDC: The JAWS bot is done, so I can assign the test plan to a human
Joe_Humbert: I can take that and begin work after I've completed my current testing
Matt_King: That would be perfect, thanks
IsaDC: I will initiate a second bot run now that I've assigned the existing one to Joe_Humbert
Matt_King: We'll need another tester for JAWS
Hadi: I can take that
IsaDC: I will assign the new test plan once the bot has finished collecting AT responses
Matt_King: Thank you Hadi; it's so good to hear your voice!
Running Switch test plan
Matt_King: Here, we have JAWS and NVDA complete
Matt_King: We're waiting on results from Elizabeth
IsaDC: She isn't present today, but I can e-mail her
Matt_King: That would be helpful; we haven't had her for a few meetings
Matt_King: If she is no longer available, we may need to ask someone else to pick it up
IsaDC: Though we have three testers assigned: Joe_Humbert, Elizabeth, and dean
dean: I just signed up for that this morning
IsaDC: But I need to assign the bot's results to you so that you don't have to enter the AT responses manually
Matt_King: Let's wait until we hear from Elizabeth, though, since we don't want to ask you to do work that isn't necessary
IsaDC: I'll reach out to Elizabeth and let you know if we'll need your help with this one, dean
Running test plan for Switch Example Using HTML Button
IsaDC: Why do we have two JAWS versions?
Matt_King: I thought I fixed that last night...
Matt_King: I only see one row for JAWS
Matt_King: The bot says that 8 tests are complete but that zero responses have been recorded
ChrisCuellar: That looks like a bug
ChrisCuellar: There is an open bug describing how you can currently enter a test plan for the same AT version multiple times. We have a fix that prevents that
ChrisCuellar: But this behavior that we're reviewing now seems to be a new bug
ChrisCuellar: We can file a bug for this. It seems like a high-priority bug to fix
Matt_King: Maybe we can wait on testing this.
Matt_King: Does anyone on this call have JAWS (besides Hadi and Joe_Humbert)?
IsaDC: It's a short test plan, so I can take it on
Matt_King: Both testers reported "no output"
dean: Joe_Humbert reported "negative side effects" and then specified that the negative side effect was that there was no output
dean: Is that repetitive?
Matt_King: I don't think we need to do that
Joe_Humbert: Okay, I can change mine
dean: It's the same conflict in Test 6
Joe_Humbert: I will update my results on Test 6 as well
dean: As a follow-up from when I was reviewing NVDA tests: NVDA will focus programmatically on the element (and change its status from on or off), but it does not visually change focus
Matt_King: That sounds like a JavaScript or CSS bug
Matt_King: If you're in browse mode, then the behavior you're describing is normal
james: Well, it's normal when you navigate. But when you click, then you should focus it
Matt_King: NVDA does, I thought, try to drag the focus along as its navigating
james: No, it does not, and the setting to enable that behavior has recently been removed
Matt_King: That's a huge deal!
Joe_Humbert: Regarding the conflict: I marked the command as untestable; that's why I had to specify a negative side effect
Joe_Humbert: So I should not mark this as "untestable", right?
Matt_King: Correct. Just "no output" (which leads to a simple failure)
Matt_King: I guess that's everything related to the Switch pattern
Running test plan for Tabs with Automatic Activation
Matt_King: Hadi finished this one this morning!
Matt_King: Last night, we had five conflicting JAWS results
Matt_King: Was this the one where you, IsaDC, were going to make some corrections to Louis' results?
IsaDC: Yes, and I made those corrections
Matt_King: This is the one where JAWS says "selected selected"
Hadi: This does not seem like "excessive" verbosity to me. It is just one extra word ("selected")
Matt_King: We're calling it "moderate"
Matt_King: We decided to only have two levels and to place "minor" issues in the same bucket
Matt_King: So it falls in this very minor-to-moderate bucket, Hadi
Matt_King: I think Vispero would want us to call it out
Hadi: Should I report that these had negative side effects?
Matt_King: Yes, if you could enable that and specify that there was redundant speech, and mark it as moderate, that would be good
Matt_King: Looks like the problem I had in mind got fixed, so I can mark the VoiceOver test plan as "final"
IsaDC: Yay! That always makes me excited
Running test plan for Tabs with Manual Activation
Matt_King: Let's see... We needed one more JAWS person, but I guess Hadi already signed up for disclosure, and Joe_Humbert's already done this one
Matt_King: So I guess we'll have to wait on that
Matt_King: As for NVDA, we don't have anyone, yet
dean: I'm available for work
Matt_King: I ran the bot run once, and then I assigned that to Joe_Humbert. Next, I ran it again (so I could assign the new bot run to someone else)
Matt_King: Is it going to end up making two different JAWS reports for the same JAWS version? Is it okay to leave it this way and assign the new JAWS bot run...?
ChrisCuellar: Let me ask howard-e to see
Matt_King: How have we done this in the past? Would it have worked differently if Joe_Humbert had already started the work?
ChrisCuellar: You can delete the report for the first run
ChrisCuellar: For the run that has Joe_Humbert as a tester, you can assign that to JAWS Bot
Matt_King: Alright, that's awesome
Matt_King: In the future, dean will be able to assign himself and then tell the bot to run it, and then when the bot is done, dean will be able to take it back
ChrisCuellar: That's right. I don't think dean will even have to assign it to himself, first
Matt_King: But he could assign it to himself and then change his mind later, right?
ChrisCuellar: yes
App Release
Matt_King: We currently have two tabs on the Test Queue page: the manual queue and the automated reports
Matt_King: There are currently 42 reports that can be automatically run
Matt_King: But because not all of those have historic data, we're going to see a lot of output which doesn't match the prior output, so we're going to need people to go through and see if the output is equivalent, and if so, set the assertions accordingly
Matt_King: This will be a lot of work
Matt_King: Everyone has plenty of work assigned to them right now, so we won't begin that effort, yet
Matt_King: But we will be addressing it in the near future
Matt_King: It's actually really exciting that we'll be able to collect data so efficiently. So big "hats off" to the Bocoup team!
CSUN and TPAC planning
Matt_King: I have a proposal for a CSUN Session. It's titled, "Who Cares if Screen Readers Say the Right Thiing?"
Matt_King: That question will be answered from five different points of view: users, web developers, standards authors, screen developers, and accessibility consultants
Matt_King: I now have confirmed who the presenters for each of those will be
Matt_King: However, speaking at the session will not be limited to those presenters
james: I don't believe PAC will send anyone to CSUN
Matt_King: I'm super excited about this presentation
Matt_King: Bocoup is also submitting a session
ChrisCuellar: We're still discussing our session proposal. It will likely include topics on the infrastructure we've built. It may include more speculative topics such as our AI research
Matt_King: As for TPAC (which is in November in Japan), there are three main things to discuss
Matt_King: One is a workshop for the ARIA working group to teach people how to write test cases and test plans (really atomic tests)
Matt_King: Another is about bringing ARIA-AT into the charter of a Working Group. That doesn't mean the Community Group is going to go away, but it will bring more formal W3C support to what we're doing. It could end up being a new working group that brings in ACT and possibly WPT work as well.
Matt_King: Daniel is taking point on this
Matt_King: It's going to be formed as a joint meeting between AGWG and ARIA
Matt_King: And then ChrisCuellar and jugglinmike will be present and leading a breakout session
Matt_King: We had awesome participation at the breakout we organized for last year's TPAC, so I'm super-excited about that