Meeting minutes
Agenda
Chris: review of topics
and planning for the TPAC meeting
… if you have any suggestions for the agenda, also
very welcome
(none)
Chris: Hoping to get your feedback today on agenda for TPAC
Rechartering
Chris: the current
Charter expires the end of October this year
… This is an opportunity to think about our next
steps and areas of focus
… If you think there's no work to be done, that's
also useful feedback to hear, or if we should formulate it in a
different way
… The current proposal is to largely continue in
the same way as we currently do
… We'll need to make some adjustments to the
Charter, to align with the latest Charter template,
… and refresh the list of the related
groups
… Those are still to be done
… Regarding timelines, Kaz and I discussed a plan
to request a 3-month extension under the current
charter
… till 31 Jan 2026
… and aim to produce a draft Charter before TPAC,
and start the formal Charter review process following
TPAC
Chris: I welcome your comments on the charter, including by email if you prefer
TPAC 2025 Schedule
Chris: TPAC in Kobe, Japan, 10-14 Nov
Next Generation Audio
Chris: There was
discussion during the previous TPAC
… but no concrete conclusion yet.
… Some feedback last time was to work on gap
analysis.
… Should we organise discussion during TPAC 2025
also?
Bernd: We should
present the gap analysis
… It maybe does not need a long time
slot,
… but would be good to have some
progress
… Wolfgang has a document that could be
presented
Chris: Agree it's a
good thing to include
… My colleague, Matt (who is a co-chair of Audio
WG), is reviewing
Media Format Support on the Web
Chris: There was an AV
Media Formats for Browser CG meeting at TPAC 2023
… Dolby emphasizes need for Media Capabilities
support for their codecs
… At Media Web Symposium this year, I had some
discussion about the pain points of LC-EVC in browsers as
well
… What would be interesting to be supported for
browsers?
… Recent discussion in Chromium on HEVC support in
WebRTC, HEVC support in MediaRecorder, Audio/Video
documentation
… Licensing implications and implementations for
hardware support
… I think there may be a useful discussion about
this to be had,
… to think about media formats more generally than
NGA, which is one example
Rob: One the subject of
media format support,
… OGC testbed is using HEIF, high efficiency
images
… which has some integration with the browsers but
not all
<cpn> Chris: https://
Chris: I did a quick check on caniuse... it seems to be supported by Safari, but nothing else.
Rob: Yes
… AUIU, there's HEIF and HEIC, one has royalty-free
and another doesn't
Chris: I recall
discussion on JPEG-XL, but not the detail.
… Browser makers also have their own preferences
for image formats.
… WebP is more widely supported.
Rob: Will continue to work with the OGC group
Chris: tx
Text Tracks in MSE
Chris: Timed Text in
MSE was a topic at TPAC 2024, and more recently Alicia's
implementation work in WebKt.
… Do we want to use this TPAC for this
topic?
… (shows MSE Issue 358)
media-source Issue #38 - Support timed text in MSE
Nigel: MSE could take
advantage of common approach for Audio, Video, Captions.
… Presentation is different as we're not strongly
expecting browsers to support and present the different formats and
captions.
… What priority is it for people? I'd love to do
this, but there isn't necesarily a strong push that we need it.
There are solutions people use today that work.
… Focus on what problem we're solving and why, to
help people udnesrtand why people should spend time on
it.
Chris: If we think it's
good time to discuss this, I'm happy to facilitate.
… We can present all the rationale.
Nigel: What could be
useful this time is getting an assessment of what the level of
appetite is, in the next calendar year.
… Do people want to spend time on it?
Chris: We know there are two organizations interested, Netflix and BBC
Nigel: There could be
more
… how many organizations to be
considered?
Chris: This is a
question for all the things we might propose within the IG
… Potentially a new feature, showing interest from
content provider type of users
… One question is creating a case for investment
for implementations
… But then where the effort comes from? Does the
interest come with contribution of effort to
implementations?
… part of this question is also whether people
willing to use time for this or not
Nigel: MEIG can assess the maturity of the proposal, and whether incubation development is needed, it can't work on implementations
Chris: As an IG we can
only point to requirements
… The second part of this, and a key thing Nigel
said, is that we're not asking for browser support for all possible
formats,
… instead a way for the content to be delivered to
the web app for rendering.
… The overall model we need to think about, relates
to TextTrackCue, VTTCue and DataCue APIs
MSE and EME on CE devices
Chris: We had previous
discussion in Mar, Feb, Jan 2025 and Dec 2024 meetings.
… The recent WAVE liaison to Media WG raises EME
issues, features, interoperability concerns, and testing. I believe
Media WG includes the features in scope already, e.g.,
transitioning from unencrypted to encrypted content.
… This is an interesting topic to dig
into.
… The WG can pick up in terms of potential
features,
… and practical concerns using the API from people
at WAVE and SVTA.
… WAVE mentions some interesting work on test
suites.
… Very interested to talk about that.
… Should we include in the TPAC
agenda?
… F2F meeting would be a good
opportunity
Daniel: We had an SVTA
players group meeting
… also GitHub discussion
… about EME similar to the MSE
discussion
… We're gathering issues that we can present at a
later date
Chris: Great
Louay: Regarding WAVE,
there are survey responses we could talk about at TPAC,
… and updates on the recent activities regarding
testing.
… I'm happy to contribute.
Chris: Thanks. Would we prefer to bring both SVTA and WAVE together to discuss with W3C?
Daniel: My preference is handling them at once
Louay: I agree.
… The question is holding the discussion during
TPAC or during the monthly call?
Chris: I agree to
gather people at once, but we could possibly talk about the testing
aspects at TPAC
… and ask people to agree to a follow on meeting
for the interoperability discussion.
Louay: Yeah, from the
testing perspective, I can make a presentation
… Advertising during the bigger meeting
also,
… TPAC would be a good timing.
Chris: So either way
would work,
… we can can arrange multiple sessions in the
future
… It will be good to move the MSE topic forward
too
media-source Issue 359 - Dynamic addition/removal of SourceBuffers
Daniel: Thasso was leading on this, suggest contacting him.
Chris: Happy to do
that, thanks.
… One of the responses we sometimes hear regards
potential workarounds, so need to show why these don't work as well
in a CE device context.
media-source Issue 357 - Proposal: Have a detachable MediaSource object
Accessibility
Chris: We have a joint
meeting with the APA WG scheduled, together with TTWG
… Topics during the previous meeting included
symbolics in media chapter titles, MAUR updates, haptics
tracks
… This is often a valuable meeting. I'll contact
the APA WG chairs to plan the agenda.
… Is there anything new we want to raise from a
media perspective?
Nigel: Things have
changed for accessibility in media due to European Accessibility
Act.
… Previously, US FCC, Canada,
Australia.
… EU Accessibility Act comes into force in
June.
… There's work in ETSI and CENELC to update EN 301
549, which will be referenced by EU as a way to meet the EAA
requirements.
… Large sections of the document reference WCAG
2.2.
… Mostly that's fine, except one part is off track:
audio description, where the normative requirement appears to be to
have an additional AD track avaiable.
… Informative text says that isn't true, e.g., if
audio related to a video already has enough info then there's no
need for an additional track. The goal is perceivability of the
content, but you wouldn't know that just from reading the
doc.
Chris: I guess the EAA has been discussed in W3C already?
Nigel: There are media requirements to be updated
Chris: So our focus would be on media moreso than general Web accessibility
Kaz: I wanted to mention the MAUR should be the focus from MEIG
Nigel: Some requirements are in WCAG and some are in MAUR. That may be OK, or does it need refactoring?
Kaz: Good question, which part to be handled by us, MEIG?
Immersive Streaming Media
Chris: This came up
during Media WG charter review, a comment from someone involved in
Metaverse Standards Forum, and opportunity to collaborate on
interactivity and streaming media.
… I don't see this necessarily to be handled during
TPAC
… A collaboration with the Metaverse Standards
Forum on issues related to interactive/streaming 3D media, focusing
on streaming media, could be something for us.
… It reminded me year ago Apple made a presentation
to Media WG on web requirements coming from their VisionOS
platform
… e.g., stereoscopic video, motion safety, display
capability detection, and caption depth
… Not a TPAC discussion, but possibly follow-up
with the MSF if there is interest I could facilitate
this
Louay: I presented on
this at Media Web Symposium
… Those updates from Apple's perspective are
relevant to cloud game streaming. We're interested in
this.
Louay: It's not only Apple with Vision OS, there's Android XR and Meta Horizon OS. Interoperability is needed, to provide immersive media on those platforms.
Chris: Right
Rob: I'm also active in MSF, for GeoPose. I can ask there about this aspect.
DataCue
Rob: I'd like to request we schedule a couple of WICG DataCue meetings during Sept and Oct, aheaed of TPAC.
Chris: Happy to do that, let's figure out when to have the discussion
Rob: OK
Media Content Metadata
Chris: We got a good
report from the MCM-JP CG during the August meeting
… They're making good progress on use cases and
industry requirements
… TPAC plan is short update in MEIG
meeting
… and a breakout including demo
Endo: Just a quick update, we're planning to have our breakout on the Tuesday morning
Chris: ok, tx!
Endo: we'll introduce
our work during the MEIG meeting on Monday
… then people can visit our breakout on
Tuesday
Chris: Great, thank you very much
Sync on the Web
Chris: We had an update
from Komatsu-san during the MEIG call in July
… He's planning to present at the developer
community meetup that is being planned for the Sunday before
TPAC
… Not sure if he wants time in MEIG too, I'll
ask
Media Protocols
Chris: Media over QUIC
at IETF, also SCONE.
… I may follow up with Dan Druta on updates on
those
… There's also CMCD and CMSD from WAVE, could ask
Will
HDR Colour Support on the Web
Chris: PNG 3rd edition
adds support for HDR
… There's progress in CSS (see issues labeled as
"css-color-hdr") but I haven't been following closely
… I wonder if it's worthwhile to hold a review of
latest progress?
… The last CG meeting was in July 2024
AOB
Chris: If you have any
other specific topic in mind, please let me know
… Any final comments?
(none)
[adjourned]