W3C

– DRAFT –
SPARQL TF

16 May 2025

Attendees

Present
AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, eBremer, enrico, gkellogg, gtw, james, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, Souri, TallTed, tl, Tpt
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
pfps

Meeting minutes

Scribe?

andys: nothing on process and admin for today

andys:

andys: tf members should have been notified

zakimg, next item

Process and Admin

<AndyS> Issue list: https://github.com/w3c/sparql-dev/blob/main/SEP/SEP-0007/sep-0007.md#identified-issues

andys: today is about identifying issues

andys: I believe that the list above is complete (as of now)

andys: are these all clear

andys: this list hasn't changed in a while

andys: this mostly comes from an email from 2016

james: another issue is complexity - the substitution semantics is slow

andys: can you set up an issue for this, with examples

andys: performance issues can be tricky

james: here there are decided performance questions

james: I'll set up an issue if I know how

andys: I'll write something on how to set up an issue - after the meeting

andys: an issue should be somehow actionable

andys: the issue list is not closed

gtw: this is a list for discussion. we might not actually make changes to address them all

Proposed: the list at https://github.com/w3c/sparql-dev/blob/main/SEP/SEP-0007/sep-0007.md#identified-issues are all things that need to be dicussed

Proposed: the items at https://github.com/w3c/sparql-dev/blob/main/SEP/SEP-0007/sep-0007.md#identified-issues are things that need to be discussed

<pfps> +1

<gtw> +1

<AndyS> +1

<Tpt> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<olaf> +1

<james> +1

<tl> +1

RESOLUTION: the items at https://github.com/w3c/sparql-dev/blob/main/SEP/SEP-0007/sep-0007.md#identified-issues are things that need to be discussed

andys: new items need a good description

pfps: the TF will look at anything with an adequate description

andys: the WG needs to be careful about making changes that don't have adequate support

Confirm identified issues

How to address errata

james: we have said that we want to gather results, but what are we going to do with them?

james: there is a repository and

james: and a script that can be run to get the results

james: I think that either a table or page per implementation showing the results would be good

pfps: I'll try to run the script on my machine for Virtuoso, QLever, Blazegraph, and MillenniumDB

james: I didn't run into any errors, even syntax errors

pfps: My recollection is that implementations don't produce syntax errors, but instead do something other than the standard

andys: the tests should all have answers

james: in my testing I didn't check the results

andys: criteria for #130

<gb> Issue 130 vocabulary to refer to the individual nodes in a reified triple term (by rat10) [needs discussion]

<AndyS> w3c/sparql-query#130

<gb> Issue 130 Criteria for evaluating errata changes for EXISTS (by afs) [spec:bug]

<AndyS> s!Issue 130 vocabulary to refer to the individual nodes in a reified triple term (by rat10) [needs discussion]!!

<gb> Issue 130 vocabulary to refer to the individual nodes in a reified triple term (by rat10) [needs discussion]

pfps: [describes several

pfps: [described several criteria]

andys: it's not actually textual substitution

pfps: agreed, I fixed the issue comment

james: are we discussing these as preferences or requirements

pfps: in my view these are preferences

andys: preferences as well

andys: please add any other desirable criteria to the issue

james: why should these not be requirements

pfps: because they conflict

pfps: a way of proceeding is to select some and see if they conflict

james: we will be making choices

<james> https://observablehq.com/@datagenous/correlated-subqueries-in-sparql

Topic for next time

james: I believe that this is pertinent to the discussion and doesn't have complexity issues

pfps: right now SPARQL queries outside of EXISTS are not correlated

james: correct

<AndyS> "Unnesting Arbitrary Queries" -- Thomas Neumann and Alfons Kemper

andys: SHACL uses parameterized queries which are related

andys: SHACL has use cases that test for EXISTS (possibly negated) on single triples

james: can

james: can test cases be developed from SHACL

andys: yes, but it may be work to make test cases than can be easily understood

andys: next time?

andys: go though test cases and determine coverage?

<gtw> where are the most up-to-date test cases?

andys: we could also look at the PR

tpt: the test suite should cover all the issues

andys: so next time review the tests

<AndyS> afs/SPARQL-exists

tpt: can we name the tests to include which issue they address?

andys: sounds good

<AndyS> +1

<james> i need to leave for today. goodby until next time.

andys: next meeting next week

Summary of resolutions

  1. the items at https://github.com/w3c/sparql-dev/blob/main/SEP/SEP-0007/sep-0007.md#identified-issues are things that need to be discussed
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/dicussed/discussed

All speakers: andys, gtw, james, pfps, tpt

Active on IRC: AndyS, doerthe, gkellogg, gtw, james, olaf, pfps, tl, Tpt