W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA-AT AT Driver Subgroup Monthly Teleconference

12 May 2025

Attendees

Present
carmen, ChrisCuellar, j_scholes, jugglinmike, m_fairchild, MichaelFairchild, mking, schalk
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
ChrisCuellar, jugglinmike

Meeting minutes

review agenda

jugglinmike: On the agenda today is a brief update on automation support for macos 15 and second, rescheduling this meeting.

any revisions?

mking: Did we address the feedback from vispero on AT-driver adoption?

jugglinmike: We discussed that on the last meeting of this group and how we continue maintaining the NVDA plugin as we have been. If you want a higher-level overview, we'll need to do that later.

mking: I'm interested in specific learnings from Vispero's adoption. But we can do that in the future.

jugglinmike: I'll have a separate conversation with Vispero to see if they would like to help with that.

jugglinmike: I would like to see them present that themselves,

Next meeting is TBD. Current calendar hold is for Monday, June 9.

Next BTT meeting is this Weds, May 15 at 12PM ET

Update on automation support for macos 15

jugglinmike: We don't have any udates from Github on their support for Applescript + Voiceover automation.

They have a general public release now, but they don't have updates for supporting our specific use case.

ChrisCuellar: In simple terms, their images of macOS 15 do not support AppleScript + VoiceOver automation

ChrisCuellar: That's what our macOS AT Driver server relies on

ChrisCuellar: There's no way to automate VoiceOver using AppleScript

ChrisCuellar: The reasons for this are still unknown

ChrisCuellar: However, we have some suspicions. The locations of some of the relevant settings in the OS have changed

ChrisCuellar: We've filed an issue about this specific problem. It's linked in the agenda. And we can continue to ping them on it

MichaelFairchild: Are there alternatives?

ChrisCuellar: GitHub allows you to use other images on their automation pipelines

ChrisCuellar: We are looking at a service called MacStadium. They provide MacOS images

ChrisCuellar: We asked them about macOS 15 specifically, and they said it took about a week to support it

ChrisCuellar: So our next step is to test if we can run automation manually on their systems

ChrisCuellar: If it works, we can look into integrating that with GitHub

ChrisCuellar: If it doesn't, we may look into running our own images

Schalk: Will this have the same affect on a service like GuidePup?

ChrisCuellar: Yes. Actually, it was GuidePup's maintainer who caught the issue initially and filed a report

ChrisCuellar: We're both tagged on that issue

ChrisCuellar: Any automation system that's also using GuidePup will also not work on macOS 15

ChrisCuellar: This part of the implementation is the same between ARIA-AT and GuidePup

rescheduling Automation meeting

jugglinmike: I put this on the agenda today so that we could hopefully reschedule with folks from Vispero, but unfortunately none of them are here.

So we'll have to do this asynchronously.

mking: We can use a doodle poll for this perhaps?

We should figure out what kind of time zone requirements we'll need to support.

jugglinmike: Let's do that now.

There's some east coast, central time, and pacific time.

We know that Brett is on the edge of mountain time too.

I think that's enough for me to narrow down some times to poll people on this.

Anything else for the agenda? If not, we'll call it early.

Thanks everyone!

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 244 (Thu Feb 27 01:23:09 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

All speakers: ChrisCuellar, jugglinmike, MichaelFairchild, mking, Schalk

Active on IRC: ChrisCuellar, jugglinmike