W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference

26 February 2025

Attendees

Present
ChrisCuellar, howard-e, IsaDC, jugglinmike, Matt_King, mfairchild
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
jugglinmike, ChrisCuellar

Meeting minutes

Review agenda and next meeting dates

Matt_King: Let's add an agenda topic for the recent discussion regarding automation and GitHub Actions

Matt_King: Any requests for other changes?

Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with what we've got planned so far

Matt_King: Next Community Group Meeting: Thursday March 6

Matt_King: Next AT Driver Subgroup meeting: Monday March 10

Matt_King: I will be traveling on March 10, so I may not be able to attend that AT Driver Subgroup meeting

https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/February-26%2C-2025-Agenda

Current status

Matt_King: There aren't any significant changes in the status of plans this week

Matt_King: IsaDC and I have started putting together a spreadsheet, and we will probably start including a link to that in the agenda soon

Matt_King: We know what plans we're going to work on for the month of March--we have one more change to go through (an issue with the disclosure navigation menu plan), and then we decided that we're going to focus on getting all the sliders done in the month of March

Matt_King: We're going to try to get through one slider each week

Matt_King: That's essentially the plan for March. The challenge is going to be to keep up with that pace on the testing side

Matt_King: We don't really have enough people to go that fast

Matt_King: I'm going to try to recruit more volunteers at CSUN

Matt_King: It's going to take some time, though. We'll see how long it takes to find more people and onboard more people

Matt_King: In the mean time, there will be no shortage of testing work!

IsaDC: Perhaps we could have a testing award

ChrisCuellar: Bocoup would be happy to shine a spotlight on volunteers here

Matt_King: that's an interesting idea!

Disclosure nav menu testing

github: w3c/aria-at#1195

Matt_King: It looks like mmoss has started the work that needs to be done, here

Matt_King: Should we leave this issue open until all the conflicts are resolved?

IsaDC: Yes, I think so. If we close it now, we might lose track of any changes we have made and when we made those changes

Matt_King: Last week, we figured out that mmoss's setting in Safari needed to be changed

Matt_King: mmoss is running some tests again

IsaDC: Yes. Separately, Joe was getting silence and mmoss was getting the word region.

Matt_King: That's a separate issue. We'll need both of them present to address that

Matt_King: It will come up on the agenda next week when we get the new test in place

Radio group testing

Matt_King: Looking across all of the results that we have, I currently see quite a few conflicts

Matt_King: Focusing first on radio group with active descendant

Matt_King: It looked to me like that with JAWS, there is a lot of conflicts. It seems like IsaDC and hadi are getting different output from JAWS

Matt_King: Hadi isn't here, so I don't think we can debug that right now

Matt_King: IsaDC, has hadi responded to your inquiry, yet?

IsaDC: Not yet, but I think most of those conflicts come from the old data that we had. The data that the app populated for us when we re-added the test plan

Matt_King: So what's really required here is that hadi will have to re-run the tests

IsaDC: That's right. That's what I needed to do

Matt_King: So your output is essentially more current

Matt_King: We need to make sure that hadi is running JAWS 2025

IsaDC: There are some new good changes in VoiceOver results but there are also some concerning regressions

IsaDC: This is for macOS 15.3. Some of the results are different--some are positive, but others are not right

IsaDC: I have been focused on roving tab index

Matt_King: Seeing that Joe's status is the same as your status, I'm assuming that he hasn't made any progress on that, yet

IsaDC: He'll be testing more on Monday--he sent an e-mail to that effect

IsaDC: For NVDA, I finished with my test run

Matt_King: It looks like mmoss hasn't started, though

IsaDC: Can I ask Luke from PAC to run these tests?

Matt_King: This would be a good one since mmoss hasn't started and since mmoss has other work. We should have mmoss prioritize macOS for this and for disclosure

Matt_King: Change this one over to Luke

IsaDC: And I'll re-run the bot

IsaDC: We can't re-assign a test plan run from one human to another human

Matt_King: We talked about this feature once, but we decided not to implement it

Matt_King: I wonder what howard-e or jugglinmike thinks about how difficult it would be to implement re-assigning between humans

howard-e: Conceptually, I guess it's the same as re-assigning from the bot. Would we want to also preserve the history of that transfer?

Matt_King: What would happen if we did is that we would have an "incomplete" run by the first person assigned, and then a new run by the second person

howard-e: So the first person's run should continue to exist? In other words, are we creating a copy or doing a full reassignment?

Matt_King: I was thinking of a full reassignment

Matt_King: It would mean that any work done by the first person assigned would be attributed to the second person assigned

howard-e: Conceptually, it shouldn't be that heavy of a lift.

howard-e: I think we should still consider a use case where the original person wants to continue after-the-fact, though that may be a separate design discussion

Matt_King: Let's add that issue to the "general usability" project, and we can prioritize it separately

jugglinmike: Though from a process standpoint, EXTEND_LATER

Matt_King: Yeah, that makes sense. There would be a little bit of ambiguity. The new person will become responsible for the prior person's work

Matt_King: Okay, for the current situation, I suppose IsaDC will have to delete that test plan run (the one assigned to mmoss), create a new test plan run for the bot, and then re-assign that new test plan run to Luke

IsaDC: Got it

Automation cloud budget

jugglinmike: We've been trying to verify Github's policy for number of job runs when we run our automated tests in Github Actions

Specifically, we're concerned about their billing policy, which depends on whether or not the actions are run in a public or private repo. We've stayed within their limits so far and have never been billed. We want to make sure that we don't ever hit whatever the limit is in the future, which is ambiguous

We've been trying to nail down their policy for free and open-source software. I still haven't been able to get a clear answer. I reached out to Michael Fairchild to see if we can determine this together. Our latest thinking is that we could maybe perform some test. We suspect that there may be a 200 minute limit per month for macOS.

It's a 2000 minute limit for Windows but 200 minute for macOS.

The latest plan is to purposely exceed the limit on macOS.

We want to test this in a controlled setting where we don't risk running out of job time. Maybe we can run this test once at the end of the month, so we won't interrupt VO bot usage.

ChrisCuellar: Why don't we run this on someone's personal account to further de-risk the limit test?

Matt_King: Can we run this under the W3C org?

jugglinmike: I can imagine the policy being different for organization than for users

ChrisCuellar: Maybe we can start with users before testing organizations?

jugglinmike: That sounds good. I'll test on my Github user account first.

Matt_King: I don't want to be caught by any surprises here.

Are those limits in place if the repositories are not public?

jugglinmike: The policy is a lot clearer for private repositories. They have a quota for free minutes and beyond that you start getting billed, which all gets tracked.

Matt_King: This sounds like a plan to me.

Matt_King: Have a great afternoon everyone!

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 242 (Fri Dec 20 18:32:17 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded 6 times: s/mk:/Matt_King:/g

Succeeded 2 times: s/mmos/mmoss/g

All speakers: ChrisCuellar, howard-e, IsaDC, jugglinmike, Matt_King

Active on IRC: ChrisCuellar, jugglinmike, Matt_King