<giacomo-petri> presebt+

<scribe> scribe: Jean-Yves

F2F updates

<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/wiki/2025-F2F-meeting-edinburgh

CarlosD: we meet in Edinburgh in 2 weeks. It is still time to join. Remote is also possible.
... the link also contain an agenda. Presentations both days.
... we will try record presentations.

giacomo-petri: sadly, I likely won't be able to attend.

<toddl> Apologies, I'm having microphone issues this morning on a different computer unfortunately.

All: round of introductions (12 persons today 🎉)

<toddl> Todd Libby, not working currently, W3C invited Expert, based in Phoenix, Arizona in the US.

ACT standup

Jean-Yves: not much.

Dan_Tripp: not much.

giacomo-petri: discussion on a specific example, two new issues.

Jeremy: nothing yet.

Kathy: TF update for rules format (part of annual review).

Sage0: reviews.

thbrunet: not much.

Wilco: several PRs open, need review.

<toddl> I have been away for quite some time taking care of my mother which has been my main focus and just being able to get back to as many W3C meetings as much as I can. I will take a look at the Github as soon as I can.

New label in name algorithm

<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2075

Dan_Tripp: no recent update. The main question is between this is enough improvement or we want to make it better before merging.
... I think we should merge this (it improves situation) and look into the known gap in another PR. The problems that Mark reports are not new, nor worsen with this PR.

CarlosD: please focus reviews on this and move it forward.

Jean-Yves: on that PR, we should get buy-in from Mark too, let's talk during F2F.

Dan_Tripp: there are many examples there, maybe we can move some away to lighten the rule.

<Dan_Tripp> <button aria-label="abc def">abc</button> <-- pass

CarlosD: decision is to try and move forward, so we need reviewers.

Wilco: it is allowed to have 1 reviewer from the same org as author, so we need 2 more approvals.

Passed Example 3 in Headers attribute specified on a cell refers to cells in the same table element

<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2233

giacomo-petri: this examples of <td role="columnheader">, this goes against ARIA specs.

CarlosD: we normally avoid bad authoring practices in our examples.

Wilco: this is not valid, but show how roles work. We should keep it with a note.

Jean-Yves: not a fan of keeping an ARIA authoring practice, but this definitely shows an important case.

giacomo-petri: what with a <div role="columnheader"><td role="presentation">

shunguo: this is not a WCAG violation, this is an ARIA violation. We could remove role?

Jean-Yves: if they have a (default) role of cell, but are presented as table header cells, that would violate 1.3.1.

Wilco: I don't remember testing this with screen readers. It doesn't work with a <td> and implicit role, and adding an explicit role of cell is also an ARIA problem.

giacomo-petri: adding a not saying this is bad is an acceptable solution.
... I can make the update.

Element with aria-hidden has no content in sequential focus navigation

<CarlosD> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/2232

giacomo-petri: Failed example 4 is not a UI components, so shouldn't fail 4.1.2 which the rule maps to.

Jean-Yves: could we update role, so it is a button.

Kathy: Passed example 1 is similar.

Jean-Yves: wouldn't that be a problem for a UI component to not be focusable? (for Passed example 1)

CarlosD: we can make the rule applicable to only widget roles.

shunguo: should the rule be more for 1.3.1?
... aria-hidden and tabindex changes info and relationship for different categories of users (AT/keyboard users).

Wilco: we considered focusable components to be UI components because they are tab-stops and keyboard users interact with them.

Dan_Tripp: WCAG UI component definition mention "perceived by users", not sure if it needs to be "all" or "some"

Wilco: is it perceived by some users as UI component if it's a tab-stop?

Jean-Yves: screen readers keyboard users cannot make the difference between an "empty" tab-stop on a true UI component or a fake one.

Wilco: 1.3.1 could be added as secondary requirements.

giacomo-petri: This Failed example is, I think, more failing 1.3.1 than 4.1.2.

shunguo: most examples on this rule are not performing any function.

Wilco: we considered UI components to be larger than widget roles.
... we could switch to 1.3.1

CarlosD:  and keep 4.1.2 as secondary.

giacomo-petri: Passed example 1 does not pass 1.3.1

CarlosD: should we add a widget role on Failed Example 4, while we think about more?
... decision: switch to 1.3.1 + 4.1.2 requirements, double checks examples, update assumption.

<chadembox> I need to drop for another meeting, but it was nice to meet everyone and be a fly on the wall today. I look forward to being more useful next time. Thanks all

<toddl> Thank you, everyone!

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Default Present: giacomo-petri, Wilco, CarlosD, Jean-Yves, toddl, Kathy, Dan_Tripp, Sage, Jeremy, chadembox, thbrunet, Shunguo, Vartika
Present: giacomo-petri, Wilco, CarlosD, Jean-Yves, toddl, Kathy, Dan_Tripp, Sage, Jeremy, chadembox, thbrunet, Shunguo, Vartika, Sage0
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