W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Accessibility Community Group (global-inclusion)

18 12 2024

Attendees

Present
andy, Frankie, Jan, Jean, kirkwood, Philipp
Regrets
Makoto
Chair
Jan_McSorley
Scribe
Jan

Meeting minutes

a new persona, as suggested by the i18n working group. They would like a persona of someone who is a non-native speaker with limited language skills.

Consolidate feedback from homework on patterns in Objectives 6, 7, 8 in the Content Usable Pattern Feedback Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARdgFWjFQb2vOEDQkHYu24ociCeRMDF9xQhaMQgW1MA/edit?usp=sharing

<andy> Three patterns observed:

<andy> 1: User need copy is often hard to understand or not grammatically correct. | 2: "login" is a noun, "to log in" is often misspelled throughout this doc |

<andy> 3: bullet formatting inconsistent.

<Philipp> observed pattern: lack of mention of language learners

<Philipp> observed pattern 2: personalisation semantics mentioned often, but less known and also seem to be not maintained.

<kirkwood> I am not saying this is correct but we in local government we had protocols for necessary “provide services to people who

<kirkwood> have limited English proficiency (or LEP)” in case we want to include that

<kirkwood> https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/language-access/language-access-implementation-plan.pdf

Philipp: In terms of sensitivity review, there's an example of someone who has to have their water turned back on - this might be triggering to people who have lived on the verge of homelessness and could trigger anxiety - this should not be in guidance. We should not mention this.

<kirkwood> I know we brought up before (for a refresher) the US shot at it: https://www.plainlanguage.gov/

Assign the following COGA Homework: Review Existing COGA Personas (https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona). Bring the following information to the January 15th meeting: Notes on COGA Persona review. How can we ensure that: Intersectionality is properly addressed; Persona names have broad geographic and cultural representation; Ideas for

<Philipp> Philipp would like to join the persona discussion if time permits

<andy> Thank you for this link https://www.plainlanguage.gov/ kirkwood

Here are the feedback notes for patterns in Objective 6:

4.7.1: Need have examples that include people who are learning a new language (language learner) (complex language example: transcribe)

4.7.2: Would prefer "enables use," instead of "allows people to use" which can put the focus on the limitations of people with impaired executive function or memory issues. May need to provide more information about what "simple" means.

4.7.3: May have language and culture issues; Add language learners; Would "well known" icons be universally "well known" and would they apply cross culturally?

4.7.4: Provide guidance on how to add voice support for multiple languages

It might make sense to separate content into different sections; trying to talk about design and user experience together (divide into design UX/UI; execution; human support - when talking to a human in customer support, foreign accents may also impede a person from understanding, so allow other supports like text) - Philipp and Jean feel that

accents are a part of the daily experience. This is dicey and while people with accents might be hard to understand, it's a part of life. John suggested that we review some of the recommendations NYC has for supporting people limited language efficiency

(https: //www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/language-access/language-access-implementation-plan.pdf). Also, the pattern is not necessarily about avoiding voice menus, but optimizing and improving them for all users.

4.7.5: In the new 3.3.8 (level AA) WCAG 2.2 Success Criterion, recognizing objects in a Captcha is allowed as an exception. This is still a cogntive test / puzzle, but it is allowed at AA, so depending on how it's implemented, it may have cultural considerations. Jean: Can combine with 4.7.1 (complex vocab: traversing); Philipp: Water example

should not be used; Andy: Grammar issue in the header ("I do not rely on users calculations" - user's) - see Andy's rewording

Here are the feedback notes for patterns in Objective 7:

4.8.1: Because human help may need to come in multiple languages, this will need some attention. Andy: Add additional languages, add additional bullets; Under feedback, expand that if a site is available in another language, the feedback should be collected and replied to in that language. If you support a language, you need to support the feedback

in that language.

4.8.2: Placement of images, alternative text descriptions, easy language rules, and symbols may all have language and/or cultural implications. Frankie: Unable to rewrite - alternative content could also be audio based on pattern name, but the user need only reflects graphical alternatives - this one was fairly limiting because of the way it's

written. Philipp: Pattern - the personalization semantics are mentioned here, but these don't appear to be maintained and/or well-known - they may just add confusion. Andy: User need is complex - see Andy's rewrite suggestion.

4.8.3: Andy: see Andy's rewording

4.8.4: Extra help may potentially need to be provided in multiple languages; Andy: User need is complex - see Andy's suggested rewording; Philipp: It might be useful to exclude the personalization semantics, depending on the state of that document

4.8.5: There may be some language and cultural implications with some of the examples of multiple feedback options (e.g. web chat or web call). We are also curious about cultural effects on asking for help and how that might play into this. Could there be gender differences in what is and is not allowed? Andy: Language needs to be addressed with

feedback and help; additional languages help more people; make sure that if you support a language, you support all services and feedback in that language.

4.8.6: May be language considerations that need additional detail; Philipp: the GPS example given was a bit inapplicable; Frankie: I kind of noticed a pattern with examples - the examples are dramatic, a little over the top in some cases - could use a review (Philipp +1); Andy: Units and measurements - there's a place where they talk about a user

having a specific preference on a device (could also be on the browser) - say that the app should keep the preference - units and measurements should all be in one place; if you want to mention it here, you need to be more forceful - don't say "can use" - say "should use"; Jean: "facilitating" might be hard to understand

4.8.7: Philipp: examples need to be reviewed; Jean: Please see Jean's suggested rewording; Andy: Please see Andy's suggested rewording for user needs

Here are the feedback notes for patterns in Objective 8:

4.9.1: Andy: Add an international element to personalization; Philipp: The examples need to be reviewed in 4.9.1.4 - the GPS example seems to contradict the GPS example from 4.8.6

4.9.2: Andy: This would be a good place to add automatic translation (Google Translate) - could also be addressed under more details; we should also recommend not to suppress right click so that translation apps can be used - Google Translate allows you to right click on a word and translate it. Frankie: We should also suggest not to suppress

copy/paste

4.9.3: The simplification of text may have language considerations; Andy: I love this one - there's a German law that requires that simple language be used for government documents - look at Andy's comment section to get some inspiration of how to rewrite this. Frankie: See Frankie's rewrite

4.9.4: Philipp: Please excuse the personalization semantics; Frankie: See Frankie's rewrite - also agrees about the personalization; Jean: See Jean's rewrite on the user need; the way it's currently written (know what will happen - this doesn't seem to read correctly)

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 240 (Tue Dec 10 03:59:59 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: Jan

Maybe present: (https, 4.7.1, 4.7.2, 4.7.3, 4.7.4, 4.7.5, 4.8.1, 4.8.2, 4.8.3, 4.8.4, 4.8.5, 4.8.6, 4.8.7, 4.9.1, 4.9.2, 4.9.3, 4.9.4

All speakers: (https, 4.7.1, 4.7.2, 4.7.3, 4.7.4, 4.7.5, 4.8.1, 4.8.2, 4.8.3, 4.8.4, 4.8.5, 4.8.6, 4.8.7, 4.9.1, 4.9.2, 4.9.3, 4.9.4, Philipp

Active on IRC: andy, Frankie, Jan, Jean, kirkwood, Philipp