W3C

– DRAFT –
I18N ⇔ CSS

17 December 2024

Attendees

Present
atsushi, fantasai, florian, xfq
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
xfq

Meeting minutes

Agenda

fantasai: I filed an issue about trying to start a document for text edges
… to describe the text edges of different writing systems

<florian> w3c/csswg-drafts#11384

<gb> Issue 11384 [css-fonts-5][css-inline-3] Text Edge Metrics Registry (by fantasai) [css-inline-3] [i18n-tracker] [css-fonts-5] [Agenda+ i18n]

Action Items

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Acss

#120

<gb> Action 120 add dicussion document to i18n-discuss repo of seeking font metrics for various writing systems (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2024-09-24

florian: work in progress
… fantasai filed issue w3c/csswg-drafts#11384

fantasai: I think we can register several writing systems
… then at a point we can start to build a document with them
… but I described all the fields we would need in each registry entry
… I think ideally we will co-publish this

florian: do you think we need a formal registry or do we need something vaguely registry shaped?

fantasai: it doesn't need to be a formal one

fantasai: one benefit of doing it as a registry is we can say that any member of CSSWG or i18n or the Team can just add things
… we don't have to get WG consensus to republish stuff

florian: I don't really know how long we need this because if OpenType start dealing with this kind of problem in their fonts hopefully they take over the whole problem and just deal with it correctly

fantasai: technically this applies to formats other than OpenType

florian: true
… to bootstrap this, I think off the top of my head, clearly there's Hebrew to be documented
… I think Thai also fits there

fantasai: we're not asking ourselves to figure this out, we're asking graphic designers to figure it out

florian: I'm not sure that in all languages we'll find definitive answers
… there might be disagreements but that's fine as well

xfq: sounds useful

#116

<gb> Action 116 sort out the various categories of things that get autospaced with koji (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2024-08-27

florian: we talked about this one in a CSS call recently

fantasai: we got agreement to incorporate this into the CSS spec but the edits haven't been done yet

florian: I think in particular we had agreements that we will use Unicode, but we didn't have full agreement about the exact details

fantasai: the main thing we didn't have agreement on is what is the default behaviour
… Unicode says the default behaviour is not to auto space
… but CSS might want to say that you do it all the time

fantasai: character lookups are not that fast
… but if we can do it fast enough, then hopefully we can make it the default

florian: @@1
… I think Unicode tells us without categorization
… they do not divide them between alphabetic and numeric
… we need to have another look at what Unicode is doing and if they have any symbols in there

florian: I didn't review the detail of the Unicode proposal

Info Share and Progress Reports

Review on-going issues

w3c/csswg-drafts#11257

<gb> Issue 11257 [css-text-decor] Control the line height of text containing emphasis marks (by xfq) [css-text-decor-3] [css-text-decor-4] [i18n-tracker] [i18n-jlreq] [i18n-clreq] [i18n-klreq] [i18n-mlreq]

[xfq introduces the issue]

fantasai: this is not the font's fault because currently this is specced just like ruby
… I can't remember whether it's defined to increase the line height or not
… it might make sense for us to change the rule somehow to be less dependent on the font by using a metric
… I think the thing we probably want to do is there's a proposal for a new property called line-fit-edge
… we'll probably want to use that metric for measuring where emphasis marks and ruby go
… rather than the ascent

https://bug-239693-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=458218

florian: might be a bit too many links to follow to get to the answer so you could post a follow-up comment in the CSS issue

florian: this is too detailed for me to figure it out on the fly and I have to slow down and read the issue closely

fantasai: I guess another question is where are we at with ruby

florian: I haven't touched it in a while
… we have a first draft

fantasai: did we initiate wide review?

florian: yes

fantasai: once we address the comments we can just go to CR

florian: TAG and privacy review completed

https://www.w3.org/PM/horizontal/?repo=w3c/i18n-activity#HTML%20Ruby%20Markup%20Extensions
… security and accessibility no answer

florian: need to wrap it up

ACTION: fantasai to look into the line height of text containing emphasis marks, CSSWG issue # 11257

<gb> Created action #151

Summary of action items

  1. fantasai to look into the line height of text containing emphasis marks, CSSWG issue # 11257
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 240 (Tue Dec 10 03:59:59 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s|an issue|issue https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/11384

All speakers: fantasai, florian, xfq

Active on IRC: florian, xfq