Meeting minutes
(https: //docs.google.com/document/d/1s_hPZNDHNEfwdS3CZsjki4FBOYx9cqArkYL4x4i8LJM/edit?usp=sharing).
<philipp> present plus
Consolidate feedback from homework on patterns in Objectives 3 and 4: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARdgFWjFQb2vOEDQkHYu24ociCeRMDF9xQhaMQgW1MA/edit?usp=sharing
<kirkwood> I would suggest age-related cognitive decline
<kirkwood> really its more than “forgetfulness” … “overall slowness in thinking and difficulties sustaining attention, multitasking, holding information in mind and word-finding”
Andy: Two patterns - (1) an overuse of users with age-related forgetfulness, we need additional examples to avoid ageism; (2) someone is attempting to give localization advice, but not consistently - we need to find one place where the recommendations are made for date format, temperature, currency, and first day of the week, etc - we need a
complete list of localization issues - we number system, decimal vs period, first name, last name, difference, in general , units (degrees in F or C) - potentially add a pattern on localization - they are interspersed and are therefore not complete.
<Jean> In 2023, a 19-year old man was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.
Andy: Another thing I noticed throughout, I added "and would benefit users with minimal target language skills - native language is not necessarily the first language spoken. Target language is the language in which something is written - someone who has limited or no language skills will have difficulty.
<Frankie> +1 to using the phrase "language learner" for this context
Philipp: I agree - I have called it a "language learner" - this can mean many things - someone coming to a new country, a young person, an older person who may encounter a new system - language learner seems to be a neutral term.
Andy: Yes, but it doesn't include people who do not consume the language - people who don't speak the language at all or well.
John: age-related cognitive decline may be a better way to describe older populations.
<andy> This needs to be all mentioned in one block, and outside of forms: temperature, date format, time format, measurement system, currency, number format (decimal comma or period), last/middle/first name conventions, etc.
<andy> French example: Je ne sais rien! I don't know nothing (literal), I don't know anything (actual)
<kirkwood> double negative two types I wasn’t remembering: concord or emphatic negation
<philipp> https://
<andy> @Jan for row 21: Needs to include that this benefits users with limited (target) language skills
<andy> @Jan for row 21: Needs to include that this benefits users with limited (target) language skills
Assign the following COGA Homework: Review Patterns for Objectives 6, 7, and 8 in the Content Usable Pattern Feedback Document (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARdgFWjFQb2vOEDQkHYu24ociCeRMDF9xQhaMQgW1MA/edit?usp=sharing ). The COGA Pattern Review Process Document contains instructions for how to provide feedback
4.4.2: Andy - Include examples that it helps people with limited language skills.
Correction: 4.4.1 - Andy suggested that we should include examples that this pattern helps people with limited language skills.
4.4.2: Andy - Native English speakers who are highly educated and speak English natively don't always understand the grammatical construct of passive and active voice; Jean - Seems to have overlap to 4.4.5 - would like to see more distinction between the two; Philipp - This one seems fine to me.
4.4.3: Andy - Some languages use double negatives as a formal practice and not all languages use commas - this is a very English-specific thing. This either needs to be expanded or get rid of "or" or "and" - English should not be used a basis for sentence construction; John - Agree, there has not been enough attention to double negatives from an
internationalization perspective (negating and emphasis double negatives) - I think it's different in British English vs. American English; Andy - Maybe reword this to say don't use double negatives, unless the language uses them.
4.4.4: Andy - Some languages don't use parenthesis in text - don't add the additional cognitive load of using parentheses; Philipp - Personalization semantic help 1.0 link was confusing - this pattern seemed highly specialized and outside of the norm (https://
taken out because it's too specific; John - your concern is the actionability? Philipp - I am concerned about the actionability and the fact that it is so unknown - there are a lot of things in the W3C that are not known well - this resource looks like an effort that never went anywhere. It's confusing; Jean - has a suggested rewording for this.
4.4.7: Andy - This is needed in many more languages than just Arabic and Hebrew, can we either remove those two or extend the list? Diacritics are not optional in many languages, they change the meaning and/or pronunciation of the word entirely. Suggest to separate diacritics and vowel marks, as vowel marks deserve those examples listed, but
diacritics overall are used by many languages and their usage is usually not optional. On the flip side, many people won't know what any of those are, and may need additional clearer explanations.
4.4.8: Andy - Benefits people with language needs; Jean - the sentence that says "emphasize" needs to be broken up.
4.4.9: Andy - The example is kind of a lot - we can run all of this through LLMs to improve and simplify.
4.4.11: Andy - "Background" is used as "cultural background," etc. I had to think for a minute that they were talking about a visual background. Maybe add "visual" to this.
4.5.4: Andy - They have temperature as an example of localization - seems out of place here - we need a new pattern for localization issues. I have concerns about the content in the examples.
4.5.8: Andy - Provides a limited list of localization and cultural relevance - issues with the content
4.5.12: Andy - We need a comprehensive list of examples - need to modify the content; Jean - Guidance needs to be expanded.