<CarlosD__> scribe+ Dan_Tripp
<CarlosD__> scribe+ dmontalvo
scribe- Dan_Tripp
Carloss: Did some reviews during last week at the Office Hours
<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2220/
Wilco: Working on a PR to update all rules to the ACT-Rules Format v1.1
Dan: Reviewed Wilco's request, and also updated my PR
Sage: Doing surveys
Helen: Chatted with a user of voice recognition software. He's agreed to create a google survey with the examples that Dan built
Calros: Would the alternative be to host this on the W3C survey tool?
Daniel: Ideally we can create it on the W3C space, I'll create one and try to give you write access to it
Carlos: Are you collecting personal tuff?
Helen: Just thoughts on the
examples, email addresses
... I'd like to avoid people doing it multiple times
Carlos: Still that is personal information, What is the procedure in this instances?
Daniel: If we are not rendering code, I strongly recommend using the W3C Balloting system
<CarlosD_> Daniel: Taken care of redirectts, Opened a page on the CG blog and opened a PR on security and privacy
Daniel: Cleared up some misplaced redirects for rules
giacomo: I opened a PR based on discussions with Wilco, reviewers welcome
Wilco: No TF updates, working through the rules annual review
Carlos: Was there a deadline for the rules submission to the AG?
Wilco: We were tarlking about when the ideal time would be for the changes to the Format. We need to get this done before the end of the Charter. There are minor changes to the Format that Daniel put together. We need to do HR first and then we can move to CR
Carlos: We have decided two weeks
ago to host our F2F meeting in Edinburgh hosted by Mark on the
6 and 7 February
... We would like to confirm who is going to attend in
person.
... Wilco, Jean-Yves, Daniel, Mark, and myself
Helen: I plan to be there
Tom: I won't be able to attend in person
giacomo-petri: I don't know yet. I can attend remotely, just not sure if I'll be able to make it in person
Dan: Not in person this time, probably remotely
Sage: Same here, I don't think i'll be able to attend in person, probably remotely
Tom: I could attend remotely on Friday, not on Thursday
Carlos: Are we putting a survey to confirm people's attendance?
<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/wiki/2025-F2F-meeting-edinburgh
Wilco: It was just a mention. Now
we know that there are more than five people, I don't think the
survey is needed
... I am working on updating the wiki page with event
details
Carlos: The contrast rules have
exceptions on the applicability, mainly for disabled
widgets
... But there are anchor elements without href that are not
covered by the exceptions
... We are proposing to be more conservative, basically
targetting at whether the element has aria-disabled
Dan: I've been recommending clients to add href = javascript void. That seems pretty consistent
Wilco: You can't put
aria-disabled on an a element without a href. We should not
encourage people to do this to get around this problem
... As soon as you remove the href that's no longer an implicit
role of link
Tom: href="#"
Wilco: That is a clever idea.
There should be other ways.
... I dont see this that often
Dan: I see calendars that have a
link and then they remove the href
... Would href="#" jump somewhere?
Tom: Since it does not have a href value it won't jump anywhere.
Dan: Role="link", that was mentioned by Tom, would it improve anything?
Wilco: The most common scenario is that the href gets removed
Tom: If you put role="link" it becomes a widget
Wilco: And the rule passes it
Carlos: The rule becomes
inapplicable because that is an exception in the
applicability.
... I read we don't want to encourage aria-disabled
Wilco: The real fix maybe is to add a subjective part to the applicability that the target is not interactive
Carlos: Removing the "disabled" and replacing with a subjective part?
Wilco: I think the "disabiled" can stay
Carlos: And then add another list item to the exception?
Helen: I'd prefer Inactive items that do not need to be read
Wilco: That does not seem part of WCAG
Helen: The problem with the use of disabled items is that you can no longer read personal data, and that is a UX issue
Wilco: I think the best we can do is to add a note
Rachael: For 3.0, please email me the request and I'll get it added to the correct location
Wilco: If it is an incative user interface component then it does not have to meet contrast
<Helen> https://web-a11y.slack.com/archives/C050D9NHZ/p1730222960406989 - for the discussion I was mentioning :)
Tom: Without the href it has no role and it's not a user interface component
Wilco: Or it is a user interface component, it needs a role, and it requires to meet contrast
giacomo: Browsers expose the disabled state even though the tag is not a widget
Tom: I can't distinguish this from a jump target
Wilco: Screen readers can't
either
... If that is an inactive component that should be
communicated to the screen reader
... I think the position we should take is if it's disabled it
should have a role. Even if it is a false possitive, it's
coming from another accessibility error. This we allow in the
assumptions
Tom: That code is always going to trigger issues
Carlos: Don't we have a rule that checks aria-disabled on non-widget elements?
Wilco: No
... Sorry, we do. You can disable a group or a widget
Carlos: That should be flagged already
Dan: Not all implementations
honor this, not sure if it's because aria-disabled became
deprecated for generic
... The tool implementations may or may not match the rule
these days
Wilco: We should then say something about allowing aria-disabled in non-widgets
Carlos: I agree, because we have
a rule that flags this elsewhere, so it is a false possitive. I
think the assumptions could take care of it
... Does everyone agree/
Wilco: We could change the applicability to say "the ancestor is disabled"
<giacomo-petri> +1
Wilco: if it's a disabled interactive control, then it needs to have a role, you can't just remove an href from an anchor and claim that it's disabled
Giacomo: Agree with Wilco
Wilco: I'll leave a comment on the issue with our conclusions
Dan: I am still processing it
Helen: JavaScript is not always the solution. If we replace the href value with a fuzzy JavaScript function we should raise an issue
Dan: The combination of these two things is confusing. Maybe these should be mutually exclusive
giacomo: Having an a tag without
an href value is also invalid
... At the end having a link with aria-disabled or having no
href doesn't change for some users, for example low
vision
... I would require the author to set role="link" based on how
the SC is written
Tom: The a without a href is not a link in HTML, according to HTML
Dan: That can be seen as true at the same time as what Giacomo said
Tom: The fact that HTML uses the same element for links and text is an old artifact
Dan: Would you go to developers and explain it?
Tom: They should change their code because what they specified is not a link
Carlos: What Wilco is proposing is that these rules shouldn't check if aria-disabled is used or not because we have another rules for that
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/the ACT/all rules to the ACT/ Default Present: CarlosD__, Helen, Sage, Dan_Tripp, giacomo-petri, thbrunet, wilco, rachael Present: CarlosD__, Helen, Sage, Dan_Tripp, giacomo-petri, thbrunet, wilco, rachael No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: dmontalvo Inferring Scribes: dmontalvo WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]