W3C

– DRAFT –
MATF 28 August 2024

28 August 2024

Attendees

Present
Carol, illai, Jamie, JJ, JoeHumbert, julianmka, Mick, quintinb
Regrets
Devanshu, GleidsonRamos, Karla
Chair
-
Scribe
quintinb

Meeting minutes

SC's that apply as written in WCAG2ICT

<JJ> Link to recently updated issues with small variation label: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+label%3Asmall-variation

Note: Joe Humbert is present, just not in chat

julianmka we started using the WCAG2ICT language - but needs a vote

Mick checked we're not looking into techniques at this time

<illai> The WCAG to ICT is actually describe what it means

<Mick> I look at a link in mobile only as a hyperlink that exits the app. While buttons to move between views, which is more covered under 2.4.6 Headings and Labels

<julianmka> +1 Mick

2.4.4 Link Purpose (In Context)

Jamie Look at the SC in normative text: Are we as a group deciding to just consider this as referencing only a link? Would the button scenarios be covered elsewhere?

Links can also navigate around a page (skip links)

It seems specific to links themselves, not their function

Jamie There are times where things look like a link to do other things. There is some variation in how companies have interpreted this SC

illai maybe we should consider removing it from small changes, because if we aren't sure about how it's conveyed to users could present confusion. We need to define what link means in mobile app context

<julianmka> +1 Illai

<JJ> Change 2.4.4 label from small to medium or large? Comment below.

<Jamie> +1 medium

<julianmka> +1 medium

<quintinb> +1 medium

<illai> +1medium

<Mick> +1 medium

JJ we need to make sure folks know that we can change the labels if we feel we need to

ACTION: Change 2.4.4 label to medium

ACTION: Create issue for Link definition in context of apps?

julianmka Can we start hashing out a definition of links?

illai: Related is headings and labels: How do we test this? It seems very opinionated? Can we define it in an atomic way? There seems to be space for interpretation

julianmka The key definition is going to lie in the behaviour. Testability is going to be manual

illai: Even manually, auditors may disagree

<Mick> Apple Developer on a link "'A control for navigating to a URL" https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/link

<Mick> On a button "A control that initiates an action." https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/button

<Jamie> the links in the SC are modeling what is meant, see "ambiguous to users in general"

<Jamie> do we need to define link now?

2.4.6 Headings and Labels

<quintinb> +2 to note2

<Mick> This SC might have cross over with 2.4.4 depending on our definition of links

With dynamic loading, do we expect headings to be available on screen when they have not been loaded yet?

<Jamie> the actual text seems like it would stay the same to me

Mick With mobile, it makes sense that each view has a description at the top of it

<Jamie> out of scope for this SC

<JJ> Add best-practice note for headings?

<Jamie> I would put that best practice note on Screen Titles, not here

julianmka Pushing back: there are many times where headings would be superfluous - they are useful to break up content (e.g. infinite content). Headings should be used to delineate actual content chunks

<julianmka> +1 Jamie

<illai> +1 to julianmka

<JJ> Jamie: shouldn't this SC be in Principle 3 Understandable instead of Principle 2 Operable

Jamie This SC doesn't really make sense in operable, since it's not functional.

2.4.7 Focus Visible

We need to define "keyboard operable user interface"

<Jamie> was there a reasin to need large variation from WCAG?

ACTION: Add minutes from variations to discussed SC's

<julianmka> Techniques for keyboard focus in Android ViewUI: https://github.com/cvs-health/android-view-accessibility-techniques/blob/0ffd2aad8f8eada9893295ac47cc9ee9bf21372d/doc/dynamicbehaviors/CustomFocusIndicators.md#L4

<julianmka> Techniques for keyboard focus in Android Compose: https://github.com/cvs-health/android-compose-accessibility-techniques/blob/main/doc/interactions/CustomFocusIndicators.md

Jamie quintinb it's not really our job to tell developers

<julianmka> ^^ I don't have the depth to evaluate these techniques but interested in others' takes

Jamie This is one of the few SC's where an external keyboard is required.

Summary of action items

  1. Change 2.4.4 label to medium
  2. Create issue for Link definition in context of apps?
  3. Add minutes from variations to discussed SC's
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 229 (Thu Jul 25 08:38:54 2024 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: Note

All speakers: illai, Note

Active on IRC: Carol, illai, Jamie, JJ, julianmka, Mick, quintinb